difference between homicide investigator/detective and forensic scientist

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difference between homicide investigator/detective and forensic scientist

Post by redpill on Thu May 25, 2017 1:43 am

MurderMysteryReader wrote:If it turns out that Mr. Cruel did indeed kill JonBenet Ramsey, they get evidence to prove it and it leads to him being convicted then you have accomplished what anyone LE was not able to do.
You will be famous and should have been a homicide detective. I always thought that some of the online posters posting about this case was capable of solving the case and wished that they had turned the case over to select posters. The case might not have gone unsolved this long. This case has been such a part of my life for so long and if it were solved I would be at loose ends. In that case I would have to focus on another unsolved case and try to solve that one.

ah thank you. flattery is nice for a change from getting banned.

i plan to start a new thread but there's a difference between detective and forensic scientist and i'm more interest in science


In the Murder of JonBenet Ramsey

the difference between homicide investigator/detective and forensic scientist is something no RDI seems to have any understanding of.

Steve Thomas, James Kolar, and Lou Smith are detectives and homicde investigators.
wiki wrote:
A detective is an investigator, usually a member of a law enforcement agency. Some are private persons, and may be known as private investigators, as "The Eye That Never Sleeps", the motto of the Pinkerton Detective Agency or shortened to simply "private eyes".

In some police departments, a detective position is achieved by passing a written test after a person completes the requirements for being a police officer. In many other police systems, detectives are college graduates who join directly from civilian life without first serving as uniformed officers.

Street work
Detectives have a wide variety of techniques available in conducting investigations. However, the majority of cases are solved by the interrogation of suspects and the interviewing of witnesses, which takes time. Besides interrogations, detectives may rely on a network of informants they have cultivated over the years. Informants often have connections with persons a detective would not be able to approach formally. Evidence collection and preservation can also help in identifying a potential suspect(s).
Criminal investigation: the investigation of criminal activity is conducted by the police. Criminal activity can relate to road use such as speeding, drunk driving, or to matters such as theft, drug distribution, assault, fraud, etc. When the police have concluded their investigation, a decision on whether to charge somebody with a criminal offence will often be made by prosecuting counsel having considered the evidence produced by the police.

In criminal investigations, once a detective has suspects in mind, the next step is to produce evidence that will stand up in a court of law. The best way is to obtain a confession from the suspect; usually, this is done by developing rapport and at times by seeking information in exchange for potential perks available through the attorney's office, such as entering for a lesser sentence in exchange for usable information. Detectives may lie, mislead and psychologically pressure a suspect into an admission or confession as long as they do this within procedural boundaries and without the threat of violence or promises outside their control.


detectives are often the first to arrive at a crime scene. they interview suspects. they develop theories, with the purpose of finding suspects.

detectives have a basic understanding of forensics, but they are not qualified to comment on it.

a Forensic scienctist, aka criminilist is a trained scientist, often with a masters or phD in science of biology chemistry and closely related disciplines who uses the scientific method to evaluate forensic evidence

orensic science is the application of science to criminal and civil laws, mainly—on the criminal side—during criminal investigation, as governed by the legal standards of admissible evidence and criminal procedure.

Forensic scientists collect, preserve, and analyze scientific evidence during the course of an investigation. While some forensic scientists travel to the scene of the crime to collect the evidence themselves, others occupy a laboratory role, performing analysis on objects brought to them by other individuals.[1]

In addition to their laboratory role, forensic scientists testify as expert witnesses in both criminal and civil cases and can work for either the prosecution or the defense. While any field could technically be forensic, certain sections have developed over time to encompass the majority of forensically related cases.[2]

Later in the 20th century several British pathologists, Mikey Rochman, Francis Camps, Sydney Smith and Keith Simpson pioneered new forensic science methods. Alec Jeffreys pioneered the use of DNA profiling in forensic science in 1984. He realized the scope of DNA fingerprinting, which uses variations in the genetic code to identify individuals. The method has since become important in forensic science to assist police detective work, and it has also proved useful in resolving paternity and immigration disputes.[50] DNA fingerprinting was first used as a police forensic test to identify the rapist and killer of two teenagers, Lynda Mann and Dawn Ashworth, who were both murdered in Narborough, Leicestershire, in 1983 and 1986 respectively. Colin Pitchfork was identified and convicted of murder after samples taken from him matched semen samples taken from the two dead girls.

Forensic science has been fostered by a number of national forensic science learned bodies including the Chartered Society of Forensic Sciences,[51] (founded in 1959), then known as the Forensic Science Society, publisher of Science & Justice;.[52] American Academy of Forensic Sciences (founded 1948), publishers of the Journal of Forensic Sciences;[53] the Canadian Society of Forensic Science (founded 1953), publishers of the Journal of the Canadian Society of Forensic Science; the British Academy of Forensic Sciences[54] (founded 1960), publishers of Medicine, science and the law,[55] and the Australian Academy of Forensic Sciences (founded 1967), publishers of the Australian Journal of Forensic Sciences.[56]
21st century

In the past decade, documenting forensics scenes has become more efficient. People started using laser scanners, drones and photogrammetry to obtain 3D point clouds of accidents or crime scenes. Reconstruction of an accident scene on a highway using drones involves data acquisition time of only 10–20 minutes and can be performed without shutting down traffic.The results are not just accurate, in centimeters, for measurement to be presented in court but also easy to digitally preserve in the long term.[57]


Art forensics concerns the art authentication cases to help research the work's authenticity. Art authentication methods are used to detect and identify forgery, faking and copying of art works, e.g. paintings.
Computational forensics concerns the development of algorithms and software to assist forensic examination.
Criminalistics is the application of various sciences to answer questions relating to examination and comparison of biological evidence, trace evidence, impression evidence (such as fingerprints, footwear impressions, and tire tracks), controlled substances, ballistics, firearm and toolmark examination, and other evidence in criminal investigations. In typical circumstances evidence is processed in a crime lab.
Digital forensics is the application of proven scientific methods and techniques in order to recover data from electronic / digital media. Digital Forensic specialists work in the field as well as in the lab.
Ear print analysis is used as a means of forensic identification intended as an identification tool similar to fingerprinting. An earprint is a two-dimensional reproduction of the parts of the outer ear that have touched a specific surface (most commonly the helix, antihelix, tragus and antitragus).
Forensic accounting is the study and interpretation of accounting evidence.
Forensic aerial photography is the study and interpretation of aerial photographic evidence.
Forensic anthropology is the application of physical anthropology in a legal setting, usually for the recovery and identification of skeletonized human remains.
Forensic archaeology is the application of a combination of archaeological techniques and forensic science, typically in law enforcement.
Forensic astronomy uses methods from astronomy to determine past celestial constellations for forensic purposes.
Forensic botany is the study of plant life in order to gain information regarding possible crimes.
Forensic chemistry is the study of detection and identification of illicit drugs, accelerants used in arson cases, explosive and gunshot residue.
Forensic dactyloscopy is the study of fingerprints.
Forensic document examination or questioned document examination answers questions about a disputed document using a variety of scientific processes and methods. Many examinations involve a comparison of the questioned document, or components of the document, with a set of known standards. The most common type of examination involves handwriting, whereby the examiner tries to address concerns about potential authorship.
Forensic DNA analysis takes advantage of the uniqueness of an individual's DNA to answer forensic questions such as paternity/maternity testing and placing a suspect at a crime scene, e.g. in a rape investigation.
Forensic engineering is the scientific examination and analysis of structures and products relating to their failure or cause of damage.
Forensic entomology deals with the examination of insects in, on and around human remains to assist in determination of time or location of death. It is also possible to determine if the body was moved after death using entomology.
Forensic geology deals with trace evidence in the form of soils, minerals and petroleum.
Forensic geomorphology is the study of the ground surface to look for potential location(s) of buried object(s).[58]
Forensic geophysics is the application of geophysical techniques such as radar for detecting objects hidden underground[59] or underwater.[60]
Forensic intelligence process starts with the collection of data and ends with the integration of results within into the analysis of crimes under investigation.[61]
Forensic Interviews are conducted using the science of professionally using expertise to conduct a variety of investigative interviews with victims, witnesses, suspects or other sources to determine the facts regarding suspicions, allegations or specific incidents in either public or private sector settings.
Forensic limnology is the analysis of evidence collected from crime scenes in or around fresh-water sources. Examination of biological organisms, in particular diatoms, can be useful in connecting suspects with victims.
Forensic linguistics deals with issues in the legal system that requires linguistic expertise.
Forensic meteorology is a site-specific analysis of past weather conditions for a point of loss.
Forensic odontology is the study of the uniqueness of dentition, better known as the study of teeth.
Forensic optometry is the study of glasses and other eyewear relating to crime scenes and criminal investigations.
Forensic pathology is a field in which the principles of medicine and pathology are applied to determine a cause of death or injury in the context of a legal inquiry.
Forensic podiatry is an application of the study of feet footprint or footwear and their traces to analyze scene of crime and to establish personal identity in forensic examinations.
Forensic psychiatry is a specialized branch of psychiatry as applied to and based on scientific criminology.
Forensic psychology is the study of the mind of an individual, using forensic methods. Usually it determines the circumstances behind a criminal's behavior.
Forensic seismology is the study of techniques to distinguish the seismic signals generated by underground nuclear explosions from those generated by earthquakes.
Forensic serology is the study of the body fluids.[62]
Forensic social work is the specialist study of social work theories and their applications to a clinical, criminal justice or psychiatric setting. Practitioners of forensic social work connected with the criminal justice system are often termed Social Supervisors, whilst the remaining use the interchangeable titles forensic social worker, approved mental health professional or forensic practitioner and they conduct specialist assessments of risk, care planning and act as an officer of the court.
Forensic toxicology is the study of the effect of drugs and poisons on/in the human body.
Forensic video analysis is the scientific examination, comparison and evaluation of video in legal matters.
Mobile device forensics is the scientific examination and evaluation of evidence found in mobile phones, e.g. Call History and Deleted SMS, and includes SIM Card Forensics.
Trace evidence analysis is the analysis and comparison of trace evidence including glass, paint, fibres and hair (e.g., using micro-spectrophotometry).
Wildlife forensic science applies a range of scientific disciplines to legal cases involving non-human biological evidence, to solve crimes such as poaching, animal abuse, and trade in endangered species.
Bloodstain pattern analysis is the scientific examination of blood spatter patterns found at a crime scene to reconstruct the events of the crime.

personally i am more interested in forensic scientist, using science to solve crimes, than interviewing suspects, who may be you know, dangerous.


the application to JonBenet Ramsey case,

there are forensic scientists, many featured in the documentaries such as by AE and ID, famous ones like DNA expert Frank Kowalski and forensic science expert Brent Turvey, who said that yes, the forensic evidence, when evaluated by forensic science, does support the intruder theory.

what they actually found at the jonbenet crime scene is the same type of forensic evidence that when applied to other cases is evidence of an intruder.

any RDI who says otherwise is full of bullshit. calling this forumsforjustice is particularly galling or banning idi as trasha griffith has done on websleuth is simply irresponsible.

so when you see an rdi poster saying there's not a scintilla of evidence of an intruder, that rdi poster has zero science education, zero education in forensic science and it's just simply appalling.




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Re: difference between homicide investigator/detective and forensic scientist

Post by MurderMysteryReader on Sat May 27, 2017 10:07 pm

Both fields are fascinating and important but being a forensic scientist is more interesting. They are the unsung heroes imo. There is plenty of evidence that pointed to someone outside the Ramsey family and home killing JonBenet. Intruder of the same weight has been used in other cases to convict the killer or exonerate a suspect. Of course, the RDI don't see it that way.
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Re: difference between homicide investigator/detective and forensic scientist

Post by redpill on Sat May 27, 2017 10:14 pm

MurderMysteryReader wrote:Both fields are fascinating and important but being a forensic scientist  is more interesting. They are the unsung heroes imo. There is plenty of evidence that pointed to someone outside the Ramsey family and home killing  JonBenet. Intruder of the same weight has been used in other cases to convict the killer or exonerate a suspect. Of course, the RDI don't see it that way.

RDI's can't even tell you the difference between a criminologist and a criminalist and which is relevant to interpreting fiber DNA and other trace evidence


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Re: difference between homicide investigator/detective and forensic scientist

Post by MurderMysteryReader on Sun May 28, 2017 8:53 am

You are right they can't. The RDI just swallowed what the media fed them about the case and the Ramsey's and went with it. Uneducated people do that.
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