motive in RDI claims of body and ransom note and Las Vegas shooting

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motive in RDI claims of body and ransom note and Las Vegas shooting

Post by redpill on Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:11 pm

stargate log oct 3, 2017

my news is dominated by an event in las vegas, Las Vegas shooting

recall RDI claims

A popular objection to the intruder theory from R.D.I

What a Face
Suspect

over at websleuths posters have claimed

detective pinkie wrote:
Hold yourself to the same standards - explain why an intruder would leave a body and a note, simply and believably

tawny wrote:
the fail in logic is astounding.

This is an example of NO IDI explanation. Why would an intruder hide her body? Seriously, please answer that for me. Why would an intruder hide her body rather than take her with them and dump her, or leave her where she was? Did an intruder seriously believe she would NEVER EVER be found inside the house?

Serious question: Why would an intruder hide her body in a dark room in a basement?


If he wanted to ensure it was found, why hide it? If he had to bug out, not taking the kidnapped-turned-murdered with him, why did he leave the note?

Delay discovery to what end? If he were bugging out, why would he care when, where, and how she's found?

It makes zero logical sense.


ukguy wrote:
Mama2JML,
Why does an intruder need to bother with a RN at all, all that sitting around authoring a RN, increases the risk of being caught.

No JonBenet in the house tells its own story, when followed up with a ransom phone call, no RN is required.

There is no IDI explanation forthcoming as to why the said intruder did not remove JonBenet from the house, which is just as inconsistent as any staged kidnapping leaving JonBenet in the house!

Intruder plan of action: Enter Ramsey household remove JonBenet, dead or alive, relocate to the boot of awaiting car, then simply drive away. Next day phone ransom demands. Total time to execute less than fifteen minutes!


nimyat of reddit wrote:
There is absolutely 0 reason to start to write a draft ransom note and then write the real thing and make it that ridiculously long.

If it was a premeditated kidnapping, ('hid in the house' theory) why the fuck wouldn't you bring a ransome note with you and why the hell would you start to draft one and then write one on paper found in the house.

If it was a burglary turned kidnapping, why would you start to draft a ransom note, and then write the real thing 4 pages long? You would scribble something like "I've taken your daughter, dont contact police, deposit money at this location at this time if you want to see her again." A panicked burglar does not sit and start writing about his 'organisation'.

A lot of people get bogged down in the details of the case, because it is a fascinating one and it is very interesting, but the ransom note is the most ridiculous thing ever and was totally written by one of the family in my opinion. They also completely over thought it - mentioning the fathers business, his bonus, writing 4 pages worth etc.

There's no way the family wasn't involved. As for which one did it, that is what is hard to prove.

docg makes a similar claim
docg wrote:

Questions

An intruder intending to express his anger or disdain for the Ramseys would have had no reason to write a meaningless ransom note. A kidnapper would not have left both the note and the body. If the parents were involved in this together, as so many assume, such a note might serve to throw the police off the track, but only if the body were found, days later, in some remote area. Or never found. With the body hidden in the house, where it is sure to be discovered, the note only creates problems for the Ramseys, the only ones who could "logically" have written it. If they were not planning on getting the body out of the house before the police came, then why would they write an obviously phony note?

Also, why was the note hand printed? Why not print it via computer? Or paste words together from newspapers? If the parents, or anyone at all close to the family, wrote it, they would be risking exposure for sure.

Answers

No intruder would have had anything to gain by writing the ransom note. No intruder would have any reason to write it. A kidnapper would have taken the child (or her body) with him. If something had gone wrong with his plan, he would have had no reason to leave a possibly incriminating note. Someone intending to frame John or Patsy would not have written the note in his own hand, as that would be evidence of an intruder. The conclusion is simple: there was no kidnapper. There was no intruder. The note must have been written by someone on the inside -- and it does indeed read like a staged kidnapping attempt.

tawny wrote:
the fail in logic is astounding.

This is an example of NO IDI explanation. Why would an intruder hide her body? Seriously, please answer that for me. Why would an intruder hide her body rather than take her with them and dump her, or leave her where she was? Did an intruder seriously believe she would NEVER EVER be found inside the house?

Serious question: Why would an intruder hide her body in a dark room in a basement?


the IDI explanation is that he wanted to.

Serious question: Why would an intruder hide her body in a dark room in a basement?

when it comes to the Las Veagas shooter

As Las Vegas grieves, investigators struggle to uncover motive ...
Washington Post-2 hours ago
LAS VEGAS — Investigators struggled Tuesday with a chilling but baffling array of clues in the wake of the deadliest mass shooting in modern


We don't know Stephen Paddock's motive. Does it matter?
USA TODAY-2 hours ago

Las Vegas shooting: Gunman's brother says, 'We don't understand ...
Opinion-The San Diego Union-Tribune-Oct 2, 2017


investigators are unable to identify any motive for Stephen Paddock shooting and killing 59 and wounding 500+ as i write this, in Las Vegas, Sunday Oct 1, 2017

since there was no known motive for Stephen Paddock.

what conclusions can you draw if you apply what Stephen Paddock actually did, but no motive identified and RDI claims such as

tawny wrote:
the fail in logic is astounding.

This is an example of NO IDI explanation. Why would an intruder hide her body? Seriously, please answer that for me. Why would an intruder hide her body rather than take her with them and dump her, or leave her where she was? Did an intruder seriously believe she would NEVER EVER be found inside the house?

Serious question: Why would an intruder hide her body in a dark room in a basement?


detective pinkie wrote:
Hold yourself to the same standards - explain why an intruder would leave a body and a note, simply and believably


etc.

well it sounds like applying RDI argument against IDI on the case of this Las Vegas shooting we must conclude since there is no motive identified for Paddock, this event must never happened.

it made zero sense for him to do it, therefore it must not have happened.

is this true?

there are plenty of other murders from princess doe to murder of abigail williams and liberty german where the motive is not known.

does this mean the event never occurred?

Jonbenet's killer wanted to kill Jonbenet, and he wanted to leave a ransom note behind, and he wanted to hand write it.

bc he wanted to.

that's the motive.

actual forensic scientists with actual forensic scientist training and education focus on reconstructing the event based on physical evidence found at the crime scene.

the fact no motive was found for Stephen's shooting spree does not change the fact that there was a shooting in las vegas.

Jonbenet's killer was motived by a fantasy, of killing jonbenet and leaving a handwritten ransom note, based on Dirty Harry. it's also what Mr Cruel did.

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Re: motive in RDI claims of body and ransom note and Las Vegas shooting

Post by MurderMysteryReader on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:45 pm

Yes, the mass shooting happened regardless of whether a motive is found or not found. I think people want to be presented with a motive so they can understand. Here's a motive for you: Stephen Paddock wanted to kill as many people as possible and he had enough weapons and ammunition to accomplish that. Not to mention a place and event to do it. It might be as simple as that.
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Re: motive in RDI claims of body and ransom note and Las Vegas shooting

Post by redpill on Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:20 pm

and likewise Jonbenet was killed by an intruder since that best explains the forensic evidence, regardless of our ability to conclusively identify a motive

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Re: motive in RDI claims of body and ransom note and Las Vegas shooting

Post by MurderMysteryReader on Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:28 am

So true. It is hard to ignore all the forensic evidence pointing to an intruder. Someone other than the Ramseys was in their house that night.
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Re: motive in RDI claims of body and ransom note and Las Vegas shooting

Post by redpill on Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:21 pm

MurderMysteryReader wrote:So true. It is hard to ignore all the forensic evidence pointing to an intruder. Someone other than the Ramseys was in their house that night.

all the RDI's on the forums goes to show how many haven't studied forensic science

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Re: motive in RDI claims of body and ransom note and Las Vegas shooting

Post by MurderMysteryReader on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:28 pm

True. RDIs won't admit their lack of Forensic Science anytime soon, but they really don't have to since it shows everytime they post about this case and the Forensic Evidence in the case.
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Re: motive in RDI claims of body and ransom note and Las Vegas shooting

Post by redpill on Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:45 am

MurderMysteryReader wrote:True. RDIs won't admit their lack of Forensic Science anytime soon, but they really don't have to since it shows everytime they post about this case and the Forensic Evidence in the case.

i might end up starting a new thread when i get around it but listverse today has 10 examples of crimes solved by forensic including dna found on clothing

i promise you rdi are not using the same scientific standard

http://listverse.com/2017/10/07/top-10-gruesome-cold-cases-that-may-finally-get-closure/

Sometimes, despite the best efforts of investigators, a case goes “cold.” More and more police departments are organizing cold case squads to go through these old crimes and see if they can find a new lead to pursue. It can take years, even decades, before new evidence surfaces. Sometimes it’s due to a guilt-ridden confessions. Other times, it’s because of new technology. And, in some cases, it’s plain dumb luck.

These ghastly murders have haunted their respective communities for years. Many people lost faith in ever finding the culprits. And, yet, there’s still hope. Within the last year, these ten cold cases saw promising new developments which could finally bring justice decades after the fact.

In May 1990, Marlene Warren answered the door of her Wellington, Florida, home and, to her surprise, saw a clown standing in front of her, carrying balloons and flowers. She smiled as the clown passed her a balloon printed with the words “You’re the greatest!” But right afterward, the homicidal harlequin pulled out a gun and shot Marlene in the face point-blank.

Police suspected Marlene’s husband, Michael Warren, and his lover, Sheila Keen, who worked at Michael’s auto parts store. They believed Keen even had a clown outfit she had recently worn for a store promotion. However, no solid evidence was found against them, and the couple was never charged.

In 2014, the sheriff department’s cold case squad decided to reopen the case, hoping to make use of new technology. Indeed, they had a DNA sample which was inconclusive back in 1990 but now firmly pointed the finger at Sheila Keen.[1] She was arrested in September 2017, and the ongoing investigation has yet to determine if Michael Warren was involved or not.

one this crime is kinda strange crime i've never heard of before. her husband girl friend dresses up as a clown and shoots and kills her in 1990.

2- it was solved with touch dna found on clothing, due to advances in dna on clothing since 1990

Florida case of clown who killed woman solved, police say – 27 years later

Authorities say Marlene Warren killed at her door by Sheila Keen, who was having an affair with her husband and later married him


Richard Luscombe in Miami

Thursday 28 September 2017 14.54 EDT
Last modified on Thursday 28 September 2017 14.58 EDT

Murder detectives in Florida believe they have solved a bizarre 27-year-old cold case in which a young woman was shot dead by a balloon-carrying clown who knocked at her door.

The killer of Marlene Warren, authorities said on Thursday, was Sheila Keen, who was having an affair with the victim’s husband at the time of the May 1990 homicide and who was later to become his second wife.

According to the Palm Beach sheriff’s detective Paige McCann, Keen, who was arrested in Virginia on Tuesday, dressed as a clown with white face paint to disguise her identity and called at the house in Wellington, where Warren was at home with her son and some of his friends.

“The clown had two balloons as well as a bouquet of flowers and went to hand Marlene those items. And as she went to receive those items, she commented: ‘How nice,’” McCann told reporters at a news conference in West Palm Beach.

“It was at that time the clown pulled out a gun and shot Marlene in the face.”

She said one of the balloons was printed with the words: “You’re the greatest!”

Detectives were initially baffled by the extraordinary circumstances of the murder, which investigators said terrified many residents of Wellington, an upmarket equestrian community 15 miles from West Palm Beach.

“How many times do you have a clown come to the door, you open the door and it shoots you?” Ric Bradshaw, the Palm Beach sheriff, said at Thursday’s press conference.

Keen and her lover, Michael Warren, were scrutinized by detectives during the original investigation, in which they allegedly determined that Keen had worn a clown’s outfit in a recent promotion for an auto parts store. But no charges were ever brought and the case lay dormant until being reopened by the sheriff department’s cold case unit in 2014.

McCann said a painstaking re-examination of existing evidence, new interviews with witnesses and fresh detective work made possible by advances in DNA technology combined to point detectives back in Keen’s direction.

The suspect, now 54, was stopped and arrested on Tuesday by police in Virginia, where Keen had lived with Michael Warren since their wedding in Las Vegas in 2002. Warren was in the car with her and allowed to leave, although McCann said “the case is still ongoing” when asked on Thursday if charges against him would follow.

David Aronberg, the Palm Beach state attorney, said Keen would be extradited to Florida to answer the murder indictment against her.

“The potential penalty in this case is life in prison, and potentially the death penalty,” he said.

McCann said the work done in 1990 laid the groundwork to Keen’s arrest this week.

“In cold cases, we have a big puzzle,” she said. “Some of the pieces are already filled in. A lot was already filled in by the thorough investigation done by the initial detectives and we just needed a few little pieces.

“We were able to do that with new technologies and DNA. We were able to complete the puzzle and that led to the indictment.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/28/florida-clown-killing-marlene-warren-sheila-keen

i've never heard of this case never heard of this crime
never imagine dressing up as a clown and then pulling a gun

a good safety lesson

if clown knocks on your door, she may have a gun.

motive kill wife to marry husband

this was solved with touch dna.

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