redpills Sunday school Job and Mysteries of the Bible Marcion Cathars Templars Messianic jews for jesus

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redpills Sunday school Job and Mysteries of the Bible Marcion Cathars Templars Messianic jews for jesus

Post by redpill on Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:55 pm

Sun Apr 15, 2018

i'm writing this on Sunday

i didn't go to church but i decided to use this blog for what i call redpills Sunday school

if i were teaching "sunday school"

on History channel's Knightfall, one of the bad guys seeking the Holy Grail came into conflict with a Knight Templar and Cathar.

what is fascinating is that there is some overlap both in time and location between the Templars and the Cathars. Both were in France and both from the 10th-11th centuries, and both were deemed heresies and wiped out.

In Knighfall the cathar was a bad fallen cathar who tried to murder the Templar and a boy, all over a iron box with a lock that held the Holy Grail.

i'll return to the cathars in a bit


when i was an evangelical was told to read the bible and so i did.

i was told that the bible, the entire bible is the actual words of God, the creator of the universe. other books like the quran are a satanic counterfeit. the bible is the real thing, the word of the living god.

as an evangelical i was given a modern up to date modern english translation,  New International Version NIV, my church also used RSV. what we did NOT use was KJV, which like Shakespeare, is mostly non intelligible. i was told the bible is a masterpiece of world literature and the greatest book ever written.

i don't know when grammatically to use thee thou thine which kjf and shakespeare use. i once read that joseph smith who wrote the book of mormons wanted his book of mormons to sound like KJV so he included pronouns tho thee thine. but even in joseph smith time in early 19th century, those terms have fallen out of use so joseph smith grammatically  incorrectly uses thee thine and thou so his perfect holy book is riddled in english grammatically errors.  

as an aside marvel comics thor often have thor and odin also saying thee thou thoust thine, whether they do it grammatically correct i don't know. but the movie version they dropped it. i've also heard that despite the size of marvel comics, they had a an x-man mutant named night crawler who was supposed to be german. they sometimes in the comics have him talking in german, but apparently no one at marvel knows any german and that night crawler's german is atrocious. it is grammatically incorrect. so bad that it seems the comic book writers pulled out an german english dictionary and translated it word for word.

grammar and spelling are actually two very important facts of forensic linguistics, the real thing, not the fake you see on jonbenet rdi b.s

i  was told god is love, and that the bible is the story of god's love for his chosen people, the jews, who were hand picked from all the peoples of the world to carry his revelation and create a bloodline that would give birth to messiah Jesus Christ.

every word of the bible is an expression of the pure love god has for those who love him.

so reading the bible i read passages like

Joshua 8 New International Version (NIV)

8 Then the Lord said to Joshua, “Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Take the whole army with you, and go up and attack Ai. For I have delivered into your hands the king of Ai, his people, his city and his land. 2 You shall do to Ai and its king as you did to Jericho and its king, except that you may carry off their plunder and livestock for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city.”

3 So Joshua and the whole army moved out to attack Ai. He chose thirty thousand of his best fighting men and sent them out at night 4 with these orders: “Listen carefully. You are to set an ambush behind the city. Don’t go very far from it. All of you be on the alert. 5 I and all those with me will advance on the city, and when the men come out against us, as they did before, we will flee from them. 6 They will pursue us until we have lured them away from the city, for they will say, ‘They are running away from us as they did before.’ So when we flee from them, 7 you are to rise up from ambush and take the city. The Lord your God will give it into your hand. 8 When you have taken the city, set it on fire. Do what the Lord has commanded. See to it; you have my orders.”

9 Then Joshua sent them off, and they went to the place of ambush and lay in wait between Bethel and Ai, to the west of Ai—but Joshua spent that night with the people.

10 Early the next morning Joshua mustered his army, and he and the leaders of Israel marched before them to Ai. 11 The entire force that was with him marched up and approached the city and arrived in front of it. They set up camp north of Ai, with the valley between them and the city. 12 Joshua had taken about five thousand men and set them in ambush between Bethel and Ai, to the west of the city. 13 So the soldiers took up their positions—with the main camp to the north of the city and the ambush to the west of it. That night Joshua went into the valley.

14 When the king of Ai saw this, he and all the men of the city hurried out early in the morning to meet Israel in battle at a certain place overlooking the Arabah. But he did not know that an ambush had been set against him behind the city. 15 Joshua and all Israel let themselves be driven back before them, and they fled toward the wilderness. 16 All the men of Ai were called to pursue them, and they pursued Joshua and were lured away from the city. 17 Not a man remained in Ai or Bethel who did not go after Israel. They left the city open and went in pursuit of Israel.

18 Then the Lord said to Joshua, “Hold out toward Ai the javelin that is in your hand, for into your hand I will deliver the city.” So Joshua held out toward the city the javelin that was in his hand. 19 As soon as he did this, the men in the ambush rose quickly from their position and rushed forward. They entered the city and captured it and quickly set it on fire.

20 The men of Ai looked back and saw the smoke of the city rising up into the sky, but they had no chance to escape in any direction; the Israelites who had been fleeing toward the wilderness had turned back against their pursuers. 21 For when Joshua and all Israel saw that the ambush had taken the city and that smoke was going up from it, they turned around and attacked the men of Ai. 22 Those in the ambush also came out of the city against them, so that they were caught in the middle, with Israelites on both sides. Israel cut them down, leaving them neither survivors nor fugitives. 23 But they took the king of Ai alive and brought him to Joshua.

24 When Israel had finished killing all the men of Ai in the fields and in the wilderness where they had chased them, and when every one of them had been put to the sword, all the Israelites returned to Ai and killed those who were in it. 25 Twelve thousand men and women fell that day—all the people of Ai. 26 For Joshua did not draw back the hand that held out his javelin until he had destroyed[a] all who lived in Ai. 27 But Israel did carry off for themselves the livestock and plunder of this city, as the Lord had instructed Joshua.

28 So Joshua burned Ai[b] and made it a permanent heap of ruins, a desolate place to this day. 29 He impaled the body of the king of Ai on a pole and left it there until evening. At sunset, Joshua ordered them to take the body from the pole and throw it down at the entrance of the city gate. And they raised a large pile of rocks over it, which remains to this day.

so an all powerful all loving god only revelation to humanity is to his chosen people the jews, and when god does talk to the jews, he instructs them on how to kill the people of Ai. and the jews claim jesus is not the messiah but they are still waiting for one.

what i found rather disturbing is that in the bible, esp in the Old Testament, there's a lot of killing going on. supposedly on orders from god to his holy chosen people the jews.

christians tell me one thing about the bible, but when i read the bible i get a very different impression. bible sucks and there's a lot of killing.

i begin to think, perhaps christians are wrong. that the god of the old testament, the god of the jews is not the same god as the god of jesus. it's two different gods. there's the god of ethnic cleansing and genocidal violence, the god of the jews as described in the old testament, and the god of love as revealed in the new testament. these are 2 different god and obviously the god of the jews is actually an evil god.

if i were to start a religion, i would create a version of the bible that expunges the entire old testament, and the "christians" in my church would only read the new testament.

one obvious problem is that the new testament makes numerous references to the old testament and jesus claims that his father is the god of the jews and he fulfills the old testament prophets prophesy.

so i would edit the new testament by removing all jewish references and references to the old testament. i was having these thoughts around middle school.

i pointed out to the church there's a lot of killing and i was told that the canaanites were some of the most deprived most wicked people to have ever existed and god had no but to order jews to exterminate them. kinda like what hitler and the nazis did to the jews

the canaanites were practice idolatry, they were entice jews away from worshiping the true god of israel, into idolatry. they practiced sacrificing infants to molech, abortion, and deviant sexual practices such as homosexuality. such a people merit the death penalty.

uh huh.

i don't go to church anymore, i don't believe what they say is true. i don't read the bible either.

but i've learned since that my idea was actually already anticipated by a second century christain named Marcion. Marcion basically arrived at the same conclusion i did, in reading the bible. but more to the point, he actually created a church and created his own version of the new testament, in which it had a bible consisting of Luke and 10 letters of Paul.

in terms of concrete implementation his church and practices were indistinguishable from other early second century churches. the anti heretic hunters like Tertullian and Iraneous warned Christians they may enter a church that from the outside looks like a church and priests who talk like Christians but they are in fact Marcionite heretics who have rejected the old testament.

Marcionism died out and what we call christianity is based on a bible that has both the old and new testament. but had Marcionism won out and became the dominate form of christianity in the western world, i would have been told by my marcionite church to read only a redacted gospel of luke and 10 letters of paul.

i wouldn't be reading is a bible that contains this

1 Samuel 15 New International Version (NIV)
The Lord Rejects Saul as King

15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

4 So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim—two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand from Judah. 5 Saul went to the city of Amalek and set an ambush in the ravine. 6 Then he said to the Kenites, “Go away, leave the Amalekites so that I do not destroy you along with them; for you showed kindness to all the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt.” So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites.

7 Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt. 8 He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. 9 But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves[b] and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

10 Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.” Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the Lord all that night.

12 Early in the morning Samuel got up and went to meet Saul, but he was told, “Saul has gone to Carmel. There he has set up a monument in his own honor and has turned and gone on down to Gilgal.”

13 When Samuel reached him, Saul said, “The Lord bless you! I have carried out the Lord’s instructions.”

14 But Samuel said, “What then is this bleating of sheep in my ears? What is this lowing of cattle that I hear?”

15 Saul answered, “The soldiers brought them from the Amalekites; they spared the best of the sheep and cattle to sacrifice to the Lord your God, but we totally destroyed the rest.”

16 “Enough!” Samuel said to Saul. “Let me tell you what the Lord said to me last night.”

“Tell me,” Saul replied.

17 Samuel said, “Although you were once small in your own eyes, did you not become the head of the tribes of Israel? The Lord anointed you king over Israel. 18 And he sent you on a mission, saying, ‘Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; wage war against them until you have wiped them out.’ 19 Why did you not obey the Lord? Why did you pounce on the plunder and do evil in the eyes of the Lord?”

20 “But I did obey the Lord,” Saul said. “I went on the mission the Lord assigned me. I completely destroyed the Amalekites and brought back Agag their king. 21 The soldiers took sheep and cattle from the plunder, the best of what was devoted to God, in order to sacrifice them to the Lord your God at Gilgal.”

22 But Samuel replied:

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
   as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
   and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23
For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
   and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
   he has rejected you as king.”

24 Then Saul said to Samuel, “I have sinned. I violated the Lord’s command and your instructions. I was afraid of the men and so I gave in to them. 25 Now I beg you, forgive my sin and come back with me, so that I may worship the Lord.”

26 But Samuel said to him, “I will not go back with you. You have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you as king over Israel!”

27 As Samuel turned to leave, Saul caught hold of the hem of his robe, and it tore. 28 Samuel said to him, “The Lord has torn the kingdom of Israel from you today and has given it to one of your neighbors—to one better than you. 29 He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind.”

30 Saul replied, “I have sinned. But please honor me before the elders of my people and before Israel; come back with me, so that I may worship the Lord your God.” 31 So Samuel went back with Saul, and Saul worshiped the Lord.

32 Then Samuel said, “Bring me Agag king of the Amalekites.”

Agag came to him in chains.[c] And he thought, “Surely the bitterness of death is past.”

33 But Samuel said,

“As your sword has made women childless,
   so will your mother be childless among women.”

And Samuel put Agag to death before the Lord at Gilgal.

34 Then Samuel left for Ramah, but Saul went up to his home in Gibeah of Saul. 35 Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see Saul again, though Samuel mourned for him. And the Lord regretted that he had made Saul king over Israel.

the huge advantage marcion christianity has over mainstream is that christians would never read the old testament, only the new testament, and doubts that lead to atheism would never arise.

the fundamental problem with marcion is that when people speak of god, they think of 1 god as the creator of the world and the universe and humanity. in marcion thought, the god of jesus did not actually create the world. the god that created the world is an inferior evil god who created a bad world filled with pain and suffering. the god of jesus is another god from another dimension of reality who saves people from the bad god. jesus is not the messiah of the jews, but the christ of this god. marcion one problem is the old testament which he rejected in its entirety. the problem he wanted to solve is the problem of evil. if there is one good all powerful god who created the world, how come this material world has such much pain suffering disease and evil. marcion solution is that there are 2 gods, one god created the world but is not all powerful and is actually an evil god, and is the same god as the god of the old testament, the god of the jews. there is another god that had no previous interactions with the god of the jews, who manifested in christ and offers a way of salvation from the material world, created by the god of the jews. a god that did not create the unvierse and is not the creator, is by definition, not a god. god by definition is the creator of the  universe, which the old testament of the jews, handpicked the jews to carry his revelation in torah.

marcion was described as a ship builder and wealthy but not much of a theologian since the question then becomes how does the god of christ interact with the god of the jews? marcion 2-god solution has problems.



of course in 2018 it's fair to ask whether any gods exist. atheists say they do not.

the simplest solution is the atheist solution, there is no gods. the universe exists due to unknown physics independent of any god. pain and suffering exist because the only thing that exists is matter and energy in space and time, with no consciousness and behaving according to the laws of physics.

marcion position is polar opposites of jews for jesus or messianic jews, and there are not one but several messianic synagogues in my city. i'm wondering how there can be enough messianic jews for jesus to support even one messianic synagogues let alone several. marcion spurned all things jewish.

it turns out that marcion and gnosticism ideas lived on and in france the Cathars held similar position. the cathars rejected the old testament and held the new testament and esp the gospel of john as its most sacred text.

and cathars were mostly real french people of the 10th century. seeing an actor portray a cathar, though speaking english not french, fighting a templar, who would also spoke english not french, was like seeing a theological dinosaur. a remnant from some of the earliest time in Christianity before there was a canon. i'm watching these french people who speak perfect english fight and i'm thinking woah there, this is like the opposite of what happened in 1940 when germany invaded france.

way back from early 90s i had access to cable and one channel ws A&E and one of my fav programs was Mysteries of the bible

here is an episode on story of Job




the intro music is pretty memorable for me. memories of the 90s

atheist darkmatter has his own rendition




i agree with atheist darkmatter that torturing job all over a bet is pretty malicious. imagine doing this to say a dog or even a child.

jesus in the gospels calls satan a liar and father of lies and a murderer but in the entire bible the children and servants of job are the only people satan actually kills in the bible. god killed millions more. satan killed around 10 and only under direct orders and supervision from god

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