Sunday school with Redpill: Rachel Grady and Tory from Jesus camp, dog food Gospel of Thomas Simone Weil

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Sunday school with Redpill: Rachel Grady and Tory from Jesus camp, dog food Gospel of Thomas Simone Weil

Post by redpill on Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:08 pm

Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:08 pm

time for Sunday school with Redpill

this is Rachel Grady from Jesus Camp

some atheists have called this brainwashing and child abuse

Faigy Mayer for one didn't care for her Jewish religious indoctrination.

As for me the bible reminds me of parable of the dog food. amusingly one Christian uses it to claim Christ taste like good dog food

The NO-GOOD DOG FOOD company was doing, well, NO-GOOD. Sales were down, profits were down, income was down, people were down.

NO-GOOD called in some consultants to come in and analyze the situation. Sure enough, they confirmed the unpleasant truth. NO-GOOD was doing no good. The consultants did some careful analysis and made some suggestions.

It didn't help. NO-GOOD was still doing NO-GOOD.

Marketing experts were called in. Every facet of marketing was considered. Packaging. Distribution. Ads. They even considered changing the name of the NO-GOOD company. This, it seemed, was too radical of a step.

A major national marketing campaign was launched that featured an opening downbeat of a series of Super Bowl ads. These were followed up with other TV ads, billboards, ads in magazines and national newspapers.

It didn't help. NO-GOOD was still doing NO-GOOD

Since the problem had to do with sales, NO-GOOD decided to hire some sales trainers. The top sales trainers from across the nation were hired and paid big bucks to train the sales force in advance sales strategies.

These sales-trainers didn't solve the problem, but they did identify it.

It was at one of these sales meetings that a junior salesmen raised an issue that ended up solving the problems at NO-GOOD. It was not received well at first.

Junior John raised his hand at the back of the hall. The expert sales trainer called on him.

"I know why sales are down."

"You?" said the sales trainer. "You know why sales are down?"

"Yes. I know why sales are down."

"We have had the top consultants in the country working on this and they couldn't figure it out and you, Junior John, know why sales are down."

"Yes, I know why sales are down."

"Well, tell us, Junior John. Why are sales down? Enlighten us!"

"Dogs don't like it."


"Dogs don't like it."

"Excuse me? What do you mean dogs don't like it?"

"Dogs don't like it."

"We have had some of the top scientists in the world developing this dog food formula. How can you criticize our dog food?"

"Dogs don't like it."

"Our dog food is nutritionally sound. We have the approval of the American Dog Food Society. We have received dozens of awards. We have been written up in the most prestigious dog food journals in the country."

"Dogs don't like it."

"You know nothing. You are a junior sales rep. You have barely started your training. You know nothing. Someone escort this young man out of here. He knows nothing."

"I know this. Dogs don't like your dog food. And I am happy to leave. But, before I do,  would you like me to prove, once and for all that dogs don't like your dog food?"

"How do you propose to do that?"

"May I come to the stage?"


With this, Junior John came to the stage. He poured three fresh bowls of NO-GOOD DOG FOOD. He had arranged for this demonstration ahead of time and had arranged for ten hungry dogs to come on stage. All ten dogs entered the stage, sniffed the bowls of freshly poured NO-GOOD DOG FOOD and walked off.

Everyone was stunned.

Then, Junior John did the unthinkable. He pulled out a bag of NO-GOOD's competitor's dog food, NOT-BAD DOG FOOD. He poured three fresh bowls of NOT-BAD DOG FOOD and whistled. The dogs came back out, sniffed the dog food, then began to devour the NOT-BAD DOG FOOD. After a bit, the dogs walked off.

Junior John held up the dog food bowls. They were completely empty. It was clear that all of the dogs preferred NOT-BAD DOG FOOD to the NO-GOOD brand.

The moral to the story is simple. If you have a hard time selling it, it may not be a marketing problem, or a sales problem, it may be a product problem.

The product, in this case is not the gospel. No problems there. The product is the presentation of the gospel. In the words of Jesus, it is the wineskins not the wine.

If new outreach programs would have solved our problems, they would have been solved years ago. In many cases, what we have is not an outreach problem. It is a product problem. It is a presentation problem.

The parable of the dog food didn't originate with Josh Hunt, but his claim that Christ is not the gospel is his claim.

In the Case for Christ and other books by Lee Strobel, Lee Strobel asked a fundamentalist what about the Gospel of Thomas, and the Christian fundamentalist claims that the gospel of Thomas is insulting to women, which is contrary to how the Gospels portray Jesus

Um, this is what Jesus said

redpill's bible lesson

Matthew 15:21-28 New International Version (NIV)

The Faith of a Canaanite Woman

21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

that's pretty racist, discriminatory and highly offensive. this story is also repeated in Mark. Luke seemingly was aware this portrays Jesus in a bad light so he simply omitted it.

of course there's plenty of bad tasting dog food in the bible

this is the "dog food" metaphorically speaking the christian and jewish religious institutions are serving

Numbers 31:1-18 New International Version (NIV)
Vengeance on the Midianites

31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”

3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

i abandoned christianity because i don't like the dog food the bible was serving. the old testament is also shared by the jews, and faigy mayer is one example of a jew who didn't care for what was served and became an atheist

this is Andrew from Jesus camp, Andrew was the skeptic

Ten years later, Sommerkamp (yes, that’s his real name) has abandoned evangelical Christianity, living with a group of spiritual seekers in Mount Shasta, California. His split from the evangelical world happening when his father came out as gay. He says he spent several years angry at the church, but has since discovered peace in eastern mysticism, quantum mechanics, and psychotropic drugs.

Then: Andrew was the one camper who questioned his faith, and it was a major source of shame for him. The 10-year-old was quoted in the film as saying, “To believe in God is hard because you don’t see him, you don’t know him much. Sometimes I don’t even believe what the Bible says. It makes me a faker, it makes me feel guilty and bad.”

Now: Andrew is 20 years old and has left the evangelical faith. He finds comfort in “eastern mysticism, quantum mechanics, and psychotropic drugs.” He thinks the camp both was and wasn’t child abuse — that the camp leaders had the best intentions, but it was like the sick treating the sick. He definitely didn’t have nice things to say about Pastor Becky, who he claims is a “terrible f—ing person who is fueled by the spiritual suffering of other people.”

he's doing drugs now

this is Rachel Grady from Jesus camp

that was in 2006 and she's a grown woman now

Then: Rachael believed that God only entered churches who prayed to him the right way. You’d have to dance, sing and generally, be pretty rowdy, which is what we saw happening in Jesus Camp. She also aspired to be a cosmetologist. She said, “When I grow up, I thought it would be fun to be one of those people who paint nails and stuff, because you would get a chance to tell them about the Lord.” She also frequently tried to convert people to evangelical Christianity, even as a child.

Now: The Guardian didn’t follow up on Rachael, but Oh No They Didn’t found a video she made a couple of years ago about her life view and relationship to God. She talks about how she almost gave up Christianity all together because she didn’t feel awesome and didn’t want to bother with something that made her only feel okay. She is also studying to become an English teacher.

her facebook she says she's still a believing Christian


Then: Tory liked to dance. She made a very clear distinction between dancing for God and dancing for inappropriate reasons (the flesh). She said, “When I dance, I really have to make sure that that’s God, because people will notice when I’m dancing for the flesh.” It’s pretty heavy when a 10-year-old is thinking about how the world may already be sexualizing her body, but she seemed to turn out alright.

Now: Tori is reportedly studying dance and communications in college. In 2014, she was a sophomore in college. Apparently, she’s still all about Jesus.

another brainwashed Jesus Camp Levi is still a Christian and married another Christian.

so religious brainwashing and indoctrination sort of works

I think though to put your children with the Bible is trust misplaced

Now, this is the year 2018 and the idea of starting a "new" religion based on new ideas is seemingly impossible plus it would put you in direct competition with missionaries from established religions with a large power base such as Mormonism and Jehovah Witness as well as Catholic and Evangelical missionaries.

Christianity now has 2000 years of history.

But if I were somehow entrusted with these children's spiritual education,

the first thing I would do is toss out the entire Old Testament like Marcion. And Like Marcion I'd re-write the New Testament. In Marcion's case he removed references to the Old Testament and I'd do this to. I probably would remove many of the miracle stories, and combine the 4 gospels in 1.

I'd remove all instances of Jesus talking about the end of the world, and obviously the last book, Revelation would also be tossed out.

Like Marcion I would teach that the god of Jesus is not the god of the Jews. Unlike Marcion, and following Simone Weil, I'd teach that the God of Christ created the world as a kind of decreation and self-limitations, and I would have them actually read excepts of Simone Weil as sacred canon. since it's my religion i get to decide what is and isn't canon and I would declare the entire Old Testament as non canon and only my version of the New Testament as canon, along with the very best religious and spiritual writers of all time, from Simone Weil and Thomas Merton, John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Paul Tilich Soren Kierkegaard in the Christian tradition, to Rumi to Sun Tzu and Tao te Ching Zen koans basically mysticism and existentialism. though some of this might be over a kid's head, I think even from the standpoint of atheism, learning such material has value.

What would my gospel include?

well again this is Rachel Gady and Tory as a kid

I agree with ex-Jew Faigy Mayer and atheist Marshall Brain of whywontgodhealamputees the OT is mostly nonsense
I disagree with them that all religios and spiritual texts are worthless

I'd present this

Luke 17:20-22

The Coming of the Kingdom
20When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. 21Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

this re-written combined gospel would also include quotes from the Gospel of Thomas

Yeshua said,
If your leaders tell you, “Look, the kingdom is in heaven,”
then the birds of heaven will precede you.
If they say to you, “It’s in the sea,”
then the fish will precede you.
But the kingdom is inside you and it is outside you.
When you know yourselves,  then you will be known,
and you will understand that you are children of the living father.
But if you do not know yourselves,
then you dwell in poverty and you are poverty.

His students said,
Show us the place where you are.
We must seek it.

He said to them,
Whoever has ears should hear.
There is light within a person of light
and it shines on the whole world.
If it does not shine it is dark.

Yeshua said,
Be passersby.

a very zen like koan there

Yeshua said,
I am the light over all things.
I am all.
From me all has come forth,
and to me all has reached.
Split a piece of wood.
I am there.
Lift up the stone
and you will find me there.

this "jesus" the gospel of Thomas and Luke and John, Jesus who taught the kingdom is a form of enlighten consciousness is what i would present as "christian" to the kids of jesus camp, granted some of these ideas may be a bit beyond what a child can understand, but they are hardly child abuse in the sense of fire and brimstone and hell

so in my religious thinking, kids with a Tory and Rachel Grady would get a conventional Christian singing and praying with Christmas music and Easter bunny as part of their childhood experiences and Jesus summer camp, but the "Jesus" that they are being taught is the Jesus of the Gospel of Thomas.

like many atheists i agree prayer probably doesn't work and god most likely does not exist

unlike many atheists i think that certain elements of the great religions, particularly the mystical parts, can have value and should be taught and that its traditions transmitted.

if someone with the genetic and psychological make of a fundamentalist christian, someone like Rachel Grady Tory or Levi or from your local church, had never been exposed to Christianity, what would they be like as adults, but with the same psychological makeup and personality and cognitive traits?

Andrew turned to the drug side. Suspect

If you only knew the POWER of the Daubert side

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