What christians say about Gospel of Thomas saying 113 and how it applies to the New Testament

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What christians say about Gospel of Thomas saying 113 and how it applies to the New Testament

Post by redpill on Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:28 pm

Sat Sep 22, 2018

lee strobel and the case for christ and other books debunk the gospel of thomas as pure b.s

they offer this Gospel of Thomas saying 113

Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life." Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven." (Saying 114, Gospel of Thomas).

christian conclusion

I think the very last verse of this "gospel" discredits it entirely.

so based on Saying 113, we should reject the entirety of the gospel of thomas, which is a collection of sayings,


there's this in the gospel

Matthew 15:26

25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. 26But Jesus replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” 27“Yes, Lord,” she said, “even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”…


Matthew 15:22-26 we find this telling conversation:

   A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

atheists have pointed out that Jesus is calling a begging woman a dog.

ref https://godisimaginary.com/i39.htm

therefore if we apply the same standard we should reject the entirety of the gospel of matthew

Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27 ... all have this statement

Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Berean Study Bible Truly I tell you ..

well they died and none of the apocalyptic statements Jesus made (allegedly in the gospels) actually happened, so they should all be rejected

atheists like Marshall Brain want us to reject Jesus for verses like this

Here's an example from Matthew 18:7-9:

   "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

This statement is totally ridiculous on several different levels. First, something like a hand cannot "cause you to sin" -- your brain causes "sin." Every intelligent person knows that. Therefore, gouging your eye out or cutting your hand off is useless. If you have a problem with "sin" and you are going to amputate something to solve it, you would need to amputate your brain, since that is where all "sin" originate


and then there is this

n Mark 11:12-14 we find another emotional reaction:

   The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it


Luke 14:26:

   Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.

so if we should reject the gospel of thomas based on one interpretation of saying 113, then we should reject the entire new testament

i've always wondered whether christians and jews have actually read the bible since the old testament has this

Numbers 31:1-18

Numbers 31:1-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Slaughter of Midian

31 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Take full vengeance for the sons of Israel on the Midianites; afterward you will be gathered to your people.” 3 Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may [a]go against Midian to execute the Lord’s vengeance on Midian. 4 A thousand from each tribe of all the tribes of Israel you shall send to the war.” 5 So there were [b]furnished from the thousands of Israel, a thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. 6 Moses sent them, a thousand from each tribe, to the war, and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war with them, and the holy vessels and the trumpets for the alarm in his hand. 7 So they made war against Midian, just as the Lord had commanded Moses, and they killed every male. 8 They killed the kings of Midian along with the rest of their slain: Evi and Rekem and Zur and Hur and Reba, the five kings of Midian; they also killed Balaam the son of Beor with the sword. 9 The sons of Israel captured the women of Midian and their little ones; and all their cattle and all their flocks and all their goods they plundered. 10 Then they burned all their cities where they lived and all their camps with fire. 11 They took all the spoil and all the prey, both of man and of beast. 12 They brought the captives and the prey and the spoil to Moses, and to Eleazar the priest and to the congregation of the sons of Israel, to the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by the Jordan opposite Jericho.

13 Moses and Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the congregation went out to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the captains of thousands and the captains of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. 15 And Moses said to them, “Have you [c]spared all the women? 16 Behold, these [d]caused the sons of Israel, through the [e]counsel of Balaam, to [f]trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, so the plague was among the congregation of the Lord. 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man [g]intimately. 18 But all the [h]girls who have not known man [i]intimately, [j]spare for yourselves.

Christians come up with excuses

What about God's cruelty against the Midianites - A Christian Thinktank

May 15, 2001 - ... commanded the Israelites to slaughter all Midianite males (including ... First, he orders Moses to lead Israel in a war against the Midianites: ...

Christians want us to accept the New Testament and reject the gospel of thomas due to

Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life." Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven." (Saying 114, Gospel of Thomas).

but if you actually read the gospels there is plenty of b.s in those material, material worth rejecting, that and all the actual threats of eternal hell christians genuinely believe in.

most likely when you die that's the end. no afterlife, no everlasting punishment. just nothingness for all eternity

imagine that the gospel of thomas did make it into the new testament, but say the gospel of matthew or john or luke were rejected,

how would christians in this alternate history

defend thomas saying 113

and what reasons would they give to reject matthew or luke or john in this alternate historical scenario

and regarding the claim that god arrange for only the new testament to be canonized,

how do you explain the rise of islam and the displacement of christianity in the middle east with islam?

the devil of course?

maybe satan is responsible for christianity and wrote the bible.

christian of course ignore and seem wholly ignorant of modern biblical scholarship, that the torah was written by several soruces J E P D stitched together and there was never any exodus.

matthew and luke used mark as their primary source, and all 4 gospels were anonymously written in Greek.

i can accept on academic grounds that parts of the gospel of thomas may be derivative of matthew mark and luke, but there are also arguments that those gospels relied on Thomas or something similar to thomas

personally i think that computational linguistics and cladistics used in evolutionary biology may provide a more scientific way of approaching this than historians speculation

personally i don't care for christians as i think they are too ignorant for my tastes and engage in double think. if the gospel of thomas has saying 113, then it should immediately be rejected in its entirety. but when gospel of matthew or mark or luke or john jesus makes demonstratively incorrect sayings, christians come up with all kinds of excuse.

i can understand the atheist impulse for jesus mythicism, that jesus never existed, since secular contemporary history is nearly silent on gospel jesus.

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