John Depo: Part 2

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John Depo: Part 2

Post by Mama2JML on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:30 pm

Q. Do you know whether or not your investigators had occasion to have anyone who was professional in this area examine the ransom note?

A. I believe they did.

Q. Do you know - well, first of all, were you ever given a copy of the ransom note?

A. Patsy handed it to me that morning, yes.

Q. Do you know what happened to the ransom note after Patsy handed it to you?

A. I gave it to Officer French when he arrived.

Q. Did you give the ransom note to any of the friends that you had invited to come over?

A. I did not.

Q. Do you know if the ransom note was passed around to other police officers? Did you have occasion to observe that?

A. I don't - I don't know.

Q. Do you know what happened to the ransom note after you gave it to Officer French?

A. Not for certain. I think they took it and made copies of it.

Q. Do you remember the next time you saw a ransom note?

A. I think Linda Arndt or someone gave me a Xerox copy of it that morning as we were waiting.

Q. Do you know why she gave you a Xeroxcopy of it?

A. No.

Q. Did you ask for a Xerox copy of it?

A. No.

Q. You say you had an opportunity to read the ransom note when it was initially discovered by Patsy -

A. Yes.

Q. - is that correct? Would you tell me how much time you spent reading it?

A. Not specifically. It was - I spread it out on the floor and tried to read it as quickly as possible.

Q. Do you remember when that - was it in the morning that Linda Arndt gave you a copy of the ransom note?

A. It was prior to finding JonBenet. I don't remember specifically what time.

Q. Do you know how she was able to make a copy for you?

A. I do not.

Q. Once she gave you a copy of the ransom note, did you at any point in the morningread it again?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you read it more than once?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember how many times you may have read it?

A. No.

Q. Would you say a dozen times?

A. I don't remember. I mean, I was trying to figure out, to the best of my ability, who in the world had my daughter.

Q. And were you looking at the ransom note for that purpose?

A. Yes.

Q. When you were looking at the ransom note, was there anything in the language of the ransom note that struck you as peculiar?

A. The whole thing was peculiar. We were addressed as "Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey," and then they switched to "John" personally. They asked for twenty dollar bills and hundred dollar bills, as I recall. The amount was a very odd amount. The way the note was signed was very odd.The cruelty that they threatened was bizarre. It was a very sick mind that wrote that note.

Q. Were there any phrases in that ransom note that you thought were peculiar?

A. I don't remember at that time that I thought that, but certainly later, we focused in on some phrases that seemed very peculiar.

Q. When you say "we focused in on some phrases" that were peculiar, would you identify the "we"?

A. Talking corporately in terms of everyone that was looking at the note.

Q. Would you tell me what phrases you were focusing on as peculiar?

A. Oh, I think the "grow a brain" phrase was one that looked odd. "You are not the only fat cat in this town, John." Those are the two that I recall now.

Q. "Use your good common sense, John"; do you remember that phrase?

A. Your good southern common sense, or something like that.

Q. Did those phrases seem peculiar to you?

A. On reflection they did. I don't remember how they struck me that morning.

Q. Had you ever heard any of those phrases used in relation to you before?

A. In relation to me?

Q. Uh-huh (affirmative).

A. No.

Q. Had you heard anybody that you knew ever use those as common phrases in their speech?

A. Yes.

Q. Would you identify them?

A. Priscilla White used the term "fat cat" in my presence.

Q. Any other phrases that you can remember somebody using?

A. No.

Q. Did anybody in your family ever use any of those phrases?

A. No.

Q. The phrase "common sense" or "good southern common sense," have you ever heard anybody use that before?

MR. WOOD: Are you asking has he ever heard anybody use the term "common sense"?


MR. WOOD: Why don't you give himthe precise phrase from the ransom note so that we don't have any misunderstandings about what you are asking, Mr. Hoffman.

MR. HOFFMAN: I will go back and ask him that. I will get the ransom note in a bit. I just want to see what he remembers.

MR. WOOD: Darnay, he is telling you what he remembers in response to your question, but when you ask him, Have you ever heard anybody use the phrase "common sense" or "good common" - I want to make - I want to know precisely what you are asking him.

MR. HOFFMAN: All right. Fine.

MR. WOOD: He is entitled to do that, and that is your obligation in terms of asking a proper question.

MR. HOFFMAN: Are you finished?

MR. WOOD: He will be glad to look at the note if you want him to.

MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you. May I continue, Mr. Wood?

MR. WOOD: Absolutely.

MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you.

Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) Mr. Ramsey, so youare certain that you don't remember anybody in your family using any of the phrases in the ransom note?

A. I am certain I don't remember ever hearing anyone in my family using any of those phrases.

Q. Now, just briefly, do you know how your children were disciplined if they did something that was against a family rule or any wishes of their parents in your family?

A. Yes.

Q. Would you tell me how they were disciplined.

A. I disciplined my children by raising my voice.

Q. Do you know how your wife disciplined them?

A. I think in a similar manner.

Q. Did you personally ever have occasion to spank any of your children?

A. I did not.

Q. Do you have a philosophy with respect to corporal punishment in child-raising?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell me what that is?

A. I don't believe it is appropriate to strike a child.

Q. Do you know whether or not your wife ever had an occasion to strike any of the children?

A. I have never seen her spank any of our children.

Q. With respect to corporal punishment, do you know if she has any philosophy that she has expressed to you?

A. I have only seen it demonstrated. We have never talked about philosophy of corporal punishment.

Q. Have you ever discussed how the children should be disciplined?

A. No.

Q. No time during the marriage?

A. Well, at no time have we ever discussed how the children should be disciplined? I am sure we have.

Q. Do you remember any time?

MR. WOOD: All of his children to the present date?

Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) The two children that you had with Patricia Ramsey.

A. You know, I don't. They were goodkids. I don't remember ever talking about discipline. It didn't seem to be necessary.

MR. HOFFMAN: Could I take a break for just about five minutes at this point? I want to start going into different areas.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are off the video record at 10:35.

(A recess was taken.)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the video record at 10:53.

MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you. (By Mr. Hoffman) Mr. Ramsey, I forgot to ask you a couple questions before I asked for a break, and they regard any personal observations with respect to your daughter JonBenet. Do you know if she liked to draw on her hand? Did you ever personally see that?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. Do you remember whether or not she had drawn anything on her hand that night?

A. I don't remember seeing anything on her hand.

Q. Were you away a great deal in the year prior to her death on business and whatever?

MR. WOOD: "Away a great deal...on business or whatever?"


MR. WOOD: Why don't you clear that question up. It is sloppy.

Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) Did you ever -

MR. HOFFMAN: Mr. Wood -

MR. WOOD: I object to the form of the question. The question is vague and ambiguous and sloppy.

MR. HOFFMAN: I object to the characterization. No, that is not a proper objection. "Sloppy" is not an objection to evidence.

MR. WOOD: It strikes me as a sloppy question. I have asked you to rephrase it. And so if you want to, please do. If you don't, leave it on the table.

MR. HOFFMAN: All right.

MR. WOOD: Let's go.

Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) All right. Mr. Ramsey, how much time would you say you were at home in the year prior to her death, JonBenet Ramsey's death?

A. Well, I was normally gone Monday through Friday from 8:00 in the morning until 5:00 or 6:00 at night every day. I traveled occasionally. I don't remember specifically that year. I tried to make my trips either one-day trips or one or two nights out. Typically, they were to California, Boston. Twice a year I probably went to Europe to visit our offices there.

Q. So would it be fair to say you didn't do that much travelling away from home? Is that correct?

A. I don't remember. I really don't. Certainly, more than I would have liked, I am sure, but I ran the company. I had to be there more often than not.

Q. When Mrs. Ramsey was diagnosed with cancer, do you know what her treatment consisted of?

A. Her treatment - yes, I do.

Q. Could you tell me what you do know about her treatment? (Whereupon, a discussion ensued and a recess was taken.)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on thevideo record at 1:27.

MR. HOFFMAN: Would the reporter please read back the last question that I asked Mr. Ramsey? (The record was read by the reporter, as follows: "Question: Could you tell me what you do know about her treatment?")

MR. HOFFMAN: Mr. Ramsey, before you answer that question, I am withdrawing that question. Thank you very much.

Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) Mr. Ramsey, I am going to ask you to look at page 145 of "the Death of Innocence." And I am going to just simply ask you to look at the highlighted area at the very top. And after you have read it, I would like you to have an opportunity to just read it out loud.

A. Just the highlighted part?

Q. Yes, please, Mr. Ramsey.

A. "Douglas described the killer as someone with extreme anger towards John Ramsey, trying to hurt him in the most devastating manner possible."

Q. Thank you very much. Now, Mr. Ramsey, I am also going to -

MR. HOFFMAN: First of all, I am going to ask the reporter to please mark this document Plaintiff's Exhibit 15 for identification. Mr. Wood, I am going to show this to you. I am interested in Mr. Ramsey reading - looking at the highlighted parts of that first on the second page.

(Discussion ensued off the record.)

(Plaintiff's Exhibit-15 was marked for identification.)

Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) All right. Have you had a chance to read it, Mr. Ramsey?

A. Yeah.

Q. First I am going to ask you if you recognize this as a press release dated July 23rd, 1997. Do you recognize this?

A. Do I recognize this as -

Q. As the language, not the article, but the actual language in this, do you recognize it at all?

A. You know, I really don't.

Q. Okay.

A. I mean, it quite possibly came fromus, but I don't remember it or recognize it.

Q. I am going to ask you just to look at the second page and the highlighted areA. Just simply look at the different elements here of this profile. Is this profile familiar to you?

A. Generally. I mean, I think these were post-behavior characteristics that one might expect in the killer.

Q. Were these characteristics that came from Mr. Douglas in this profile?

A. I don't remember. It is possible, but I don't remember.

Q. Okay. Because I just want you to examine it in conjunction with the statement that you had in your book that - I believe the statement is that, "Douglas described the killer as someone with extreme anger towards John Ramsey, trying to hurt him in the most devastating manner possible." And I am assuming that, correct - Mr. Ramsey, do you - Did you put this statement in the book because you subscribe to that as true?

A. I can't imagine anybody, anyone that Ihave made angry enough to murder a child. I took that at - the opinion of someone who understands the criminal mind better than I do, but I am not convinced that is correct.

Q. All right. What I would like you to do is just simply look at the elements on the second page there. And I would like to ask you if, for instance, in the first element, I believe it is, "JonBenet's killer may have been suffering from some stress in the weeks and months preceding the crime." Do you see that element -

A. Uh-huh (affirmative).

Q. - in that profile? I am going to ask you, with respect to Patsy, do you feel that Patsy was under any kind of unusual stress during the Christmas holidays, your wife Mrs. Ramsey?

A. No.

Q. Did, at any point during the holidays, you observe her as working too hard?

A. No.

Q. Do you feel that Mrs. Ramsey took too much responsibility on herself, helping herselfand other people?

A. Well, she is a very giving person, but that is her nature. So I don't feel she took too much on, no.

Q. All right. So you don't believe that she was under any unusual stress during that period?

A. Absolutely not.

Q. Okay. The second element here is "A triggering event, such as a job crisis or crisis in a personal relationship, may have caused this individual to vent anger, perhaps at a female close to him"- Or to her, though it doesn't say "her" here. - "and perhaps at me personally." The question I have - and I am very sorry to ask you this, and I don't mean any disrespect - was there any stress in your personal relationship with Mrs. Ramsey that you would have observed at this time?

A. No.

Q. Were you having any marital problems?

A. Absolutely not.

Q. None. Okay. Now, with respect to two elements down, "He possibly has increased his consumption of alcohol or drugs," do you - did you have occasion to observe Mrs. Ramsey drink at any point during this period?

A. During what period?

Q. The Christmas holidays.

A. Well, we had a church party at our house at one point. We were at the Whites' at one point. Patsy is not a heavy drinker. I don't recall an image of her having a drink. She might have had a glass of wine, but I don't -

Q. Did you ever have occasion to see Patsy, what you would call, inebriated at any point in your marriage?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. Okay. Do you know if Mrs. Ramsey was taking medication at that time during the Christmas holidays?

A. Do I know if she was?

Q. Yes.

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. Now, the next element is "He may have even turned to religion." Was it your observation that Patsy was a particularly religious person?

A. We both were.

Q. Did there come a time during Mrs. Ramsey's cancer that she expressed to you that she had experienced an extremely intense spiritual or religious event in that -

A. We had a healing service that was conducted by our priest from St. John's. He prayed an Episcopal prayer that asked God to heal her body. Patsy returned to NIH within a week and took a CAT scan, and the cancer was gone. And we believe that, that our prayers were answered, yes.

Q. Do you or Patsy believe in the Holy Spirit?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is an agent for healing by God?

A. I believe the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity of God. And I don't know that I understand the Holy Spirit's role in healing, no. I don't know that one way or other.

Q. Are you familiar with Pentecostal religious beliefs that the true purpose of Christianity and Jesus' purpose was a healingministry, and that the Holy Spirit was involved in that healing ministry?

A. I am not familiar with that.

Q. Also, are you familiar with the religious concept of what is known as "being in right relation to God"?

A. I don't know of that as a concept. I have heard that phrase.

Q. I was just wondering if you understood what that phrase meant to you.

A. Do I understand the phrase "being in a right relationship with God"?

Q. Yes. "One being in right relation to God."

A. Well, I would - that would not be how I would describe my relationship with God.

Q. All right. I just wanted to know that.

A. Uh-huh (affirmative).

Q. The next statement: "He may be rigid, nervous and preoccupied in casual conversation." How would you describe your observations of Patsy - of Mrs. Ramsey's -excuse me - Mrs. Ramsey's conversational, youknow, attitude? Do you find her to be rigid or nervous or preoccupied in conversation?

A. You mean in general?

Q. In general.

A. No.

Q. During the Christmas holidays, leading up to the death of your daughter, did you find her to be in any way rigid, nervous, or preoccupied -

A. No.

Q. - in conversations?

A. No.

Q. Well, the next one I think speaks for itself. "He may have tried to appear very cooperative with the authorities." Have you tried, to the best of your knowledge, to cooperate with the authorities?

A. Well, I think we detailed that pretty accurately. We were very willing to cooperate with them, given that their intentions were to be trusted.

Q. "He may have quickly constructed an alibi for his whereabouts the night JonBenet was killed."That brings me to the issue of thenext area I want to go into, which is the area of the ransom note, which I am going to show you at page 407, which I showed Mrs. Ramsey yesterday, in your book with respect to the ransom note. Would you read that aloud? I had Mrs. Ramsey do it yesterday too.

A. Number 4. "The ransom note. Considered earlier and throughout the book, the note was written by the killer and remains an extremely important clue. An adequate amount of handwriting samples from the killer should conclusively tie him to the long and rambling note."

Q. Do you still believe that statement to be true?

A. That is my opinion, yes.

Q. Yes. In your opinion?

A. Yes.

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