JonBenet Ramsey and Graeme Thorne A project Tricia Griffith RDI rebuttal

this is trasha griffith


trasha pictured below is an example of an anti-science denialist



this is what she claims

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?76520-Patsy-Ramsey/page92

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

As owner, I do my best to stay out of actual discussions about a crime.

The JBR case is the one expection.

Websleuths is a leader in true crime information as well as discussion. People come here to get information. It is imperative we deal with the facts. Not fantasy.

All I ask for are facts and a logical connecting of the dots. Logic and facts.

When I get time I will be going through the forum to make sure the JonBenet Ramsey forum is being held up to the high standards just like all our other forums on Websleuths.

The days of allowing anyone to post anything because it's part of their "theory" are gone. Facts and logic. Very simple.

this is her qualifications

Host Tricia Griffith is a veteran radio disc jockey and owner of Websleuths.com and owner of Forums for Justice.org.

in other words she has ZERO qualifications in forensic science. she has no training in forensic fiber, trace evidence, DNA yet she claims

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

compare with

MurderMysteryReader wrote:I agree. First off, Hunter had no case and the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certainty is a pretty high one, especially for a case without DNA and other evidence linking the Ramsey's or Burke to the death of JonBenet. Believing they were guilty wouldn't have been enough. I believe the touch DNA found in JonBenet's underwear, under her nails, and on her leggings to be that of her killer. It doesn't provide a link to the Ramsey''s. The lack of evidence not to mention I don't think the Ramsey's or Burke are stupid enough to have used items in the house to commit the crime that could incriminate them. Lastly, the way the crime went down fits with Mr. Cruel's MO, I am starting to believe he killed JonBenet although it would be difficult to prove in a court of law when nobody knows who he is or where he is. Perhaps the other members on this forum do not know you have your own blog here. If true that is too bad because it is a good one and I enjoy reading it.

which is better grounded in forensic science?



this is a classic case in forensic science



if the RDI poster like Trasha Griffith cynic ukguy et al,  are not familiar with the kidnapping and murder of 8-year old Graeme Thorne and its application to JonBenet Ramsey case, they have no business commenting on the JonBenet Ramsey. They are essentially ignoramus .

the forensics involved in kidnapping and murder of 8-year old Graeme Thorne is a classic case study in forensics.

a summary is here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Thorne_kidnapping

The Graeme Thorne kidnapping, was the 1960 kidnapping and murder of 8-year old Graeme Thorne for the money that his father, Bazil Thorne, had won in a lottery. A crime which caused massive shock at the time and gathered huge publicity, it was the first known kidnapping for ransom in Australian history. The police investigation that led to the capture and conviction of his murderer, Stephen Bradley, is regarded as a textbook example of forensic investigation.

the importance of this case in Jonbenet and others is

The police investigation that led to the capture and conviction of his murderer, Stephen Bradley, is regarded as a textbook example of forensic investigation.

this was also featured on Forensic Files and Crimes Investigation Australia.

I'll quote only the relevance

On 16 August Graeme Thorne's body was discovered in Grandview Grove, Seaforth in Sydney. Wrapped in a blue tartan rug, Graeme Thorne was still wearing his school uniform. The rug containing the body had been there for some time; some local children had known about it but it didn't occur to them that it might have been anything significant. The discovery was only made when two of them mentioned it in passing to their parents.

as with Jonbenet Ramsey, Graeme Thorne age 8 was abducted from his last known location. His body was found.

it was found with this

Examination of the body showed that the boy had died from either asphyxiation or a head injury or a combination of the two. He had been alive when hit on the head. Examination also established that he had been murdered within 24 hours of the kidnapping and that his body had been dumped soon afterwards.

There were other pieces of evidence. Some weeks before the kidnapping, a foreign man had called at the Thornes' residence and asked them to confirm their telephone number. Also, on the morning of the kidnapping some witnesses had seen an iridescent blue 1955 Ford Customline double-parked at the corner of Francis and Wellington streets, near where Graeme was usually picked up. Investigations soon established that there were 4000 cars matching this general description.

Forensic examination of the blue tartan rug found with the body showed two plant types, Chamaecyparis pisifera and Cupressus glabra, that were not present at the vacant lot where the body was found. In addition, soil scrapings from the body showed tiny fragments of pink mortar. Forensic experts deduced that the body had been lying under a brick building at some stage.

Police searched for a house with pink mortar and with the two plant types growing in the yard. Although cypress plants could be found growing in many people's yards, only one of the plant types was common, making the combination of the two plants together very rare.[2] Following a tip-off from a postman, a pink house was identified with a blue Ford outside and the two plant species in the garden. The house was in Moore Street in the suburb of Clontarf.

Police visited the house on 3 October and learned that it had been rented by a Hungarian immigrant named Stephen Bradley, born István Baranyay in 1926 in Budapest. However Bradley had left Australia on 26 September, sailing for London with his family aboard the SS Himalaya.

Bradley had owned an iridescent blue 1955 Ford Customline, which he had sold. Detectives found the car waiting to be sold at a nearby car lot and forensically linked it with Graeme Thorne's body. They amassed a body of evidence which conclusively established that Bradley was the kidnapper.

let's get to how actual forensic scientists, who use actual case studies that resulted in the successful identification and prosecution reasoning.

i promise you no RDI can do this. none. on any forum.

Forensic examination of the blue tartan rug found with the body showed two plant types, Chamaecyparis pisifera and Cupressus glabra, that were not present at the vacant lot where the body was found. In addition, soil scrapings from the body showed tiny fragments of pink mortar. Forensic experts deduced that the body had been lying under a brick building at some stage.

Police searched for a house with pink mortar and with the two plant types growing in the yard. Although cypress plants could be found growing in many people's yards, only one of the plant types was common, making the combination of the two plants together very rare.[2] Following a tip-off from a postman, a pink house was identified with a blue Ford outside and the two plant species in the garden. The house was in Moore Street in the suburb of Clontarf.

Police visited the house on 3 October and learned that it had been rented by a Hungarian immigrant named Stephen Bradley, born István Baranyay in 1926 in Budapest. However Bradley had left Australia on 26 September, sailing for London with his family aboard the SS Himalaya.

8 year old  Graeme Thorne  like Jonbenet Ramsey was both head bashed and strangled with ligature within 24 hours of his death. Given this kidnapping happened in 1960 and is famous in Australia and is one of the the few to have had both done, it could be evidence Mr Cruel killed Jonbenet, as a homage to 8 year old  Graeme Thorne.

they found 2 types of plants material with 8 year old  Graeme Thorne  body, which was both head bashed and strangled like Jonbenet Ramsey.

Chamaecyparis pisifera and Cupressus glabra

these plant pieces were found in the blanket 8 year old  Graeme Thorne  was wrapped in.

these 2 plant species were NOT found in the vacant lot his body was found.

forensic scientists reason that 8 year old  Graeme Thorne  was killed in another location, a location that had Chamaecyparis pisifera and Cupressus glabra and tiny minute amounts of pink powder.

so the question is

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

does tiny pieces of crushed leaves of  Chamaecyparis pisifera and Cupressus glabra and tiny minute amounts of pink powder

Chamaecyparis pisifera



Cupressus glabra




a scintilla of evidence ?

both plants are relatively common in Sydney. you can use RDI denialist tactics that perhaps that plant material was "secondary transfer" or whatever, and therefore it is not evidence at all.

pink powder can come from anywhere.
Chamaecyparis pisifera can come from anywhere.
Cupressus glabra can come from anywhere.

since all 3 can come from anywhere, it represents not a scintilla of evidence, if RDI denialist reasoning is applied from Jonbenet Ramsey to 8 year old Graeme Thorne

well, it turns out that was the actual evidence that linked 8 year old  Graeme Thorne to the home and actual location of his murder, Stephen Bradley.

you see, IDI use actual forensic textbook science, and actual forensic case studies to arrive at conclusion an intruder murdered Jonbenet Ramsey.

in the Jonbenet Ramsey case, all the evidence that is unsourced in the Ramsey home, the hi-tech shoe print in unsourced and recent, the ligature is recent, the tape is recent, they have trace fiber and animal hair that is recent, Jonbenet has multiple types of fiber unsourced to the R's home, and the handwriting and linguistics eliminate both R's.

all of that unsourced evidence, which is far far more extensive than the evidence of 8 year old  Graeme Thorne, is yes evidence of an intruder.

this is RDI tricia griffith




she doesn't know what she's talking about.

in the murder of 8 year old  Graeme Thorne, finding tiny pieces of plant material that was identified as
Chamaecyparis pisifera and Cupressus glabra plus pink powder identified as coming from pink mortar was enough to establish 8 year old  Graeme Thorne was not killed at the location he was found, was not killed by his parents, and uniquely identifed his killer as  Stephen Bradley, bc his home was the only home in Sydney that had both plants and pink powder mortar.

In Jonbenet from the shoeprint to the ligature and tape to multiple types of fiber and animal hair are all unsourced to the R's home.

Using the same scientific reasoning in the 8 year old  Graeme Thorne to Jonbenet Ramsey leads to the conclusion someone, an intruder, from outside the home came in and left that forensic evidence there.

I'm using actual genuine forensic science, accepted forensic crime scene reconstruction, and actual forensic case studies. not anti-science denialism.

8 year old  Graeme Thorne


Jonbenet Ramsey




both head bashed with skull fracture, both ligature strangled within 24 hours of their abduction


besides Jonbenet 8 year old Graeme Thorne also was head bashed, skull fractured, ligature strangulation. Only it happened in Sydney Australia.

one from australia, the other usa

perhaps mr cruel is paying homage to 8 year old Graeme Thorne