forumsforjustice.org JonBenet Ramsey fiber evidence + science = intruder

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

As owner, I do my best to stay out of actual discussions about a crime.

The JBR case is the one expection.

Websleuths is a leader in true crime information as well as discussion. People come here to get information. It is imperative we deal with the facts. Not fantasy.

All I ask for are facts and a logical connecting of the dots. Logic and facts.

When I get time I will be going through the forum to make sure the JonBenet Ramsey forum is being held up to the high standards just like all our other forums on Websleuths.

The days of allowing anyone to post anything because it's part of their "theory" are gone. Facts and logic. Very simple.

Host Tricia Griffith is a veteran radio disc jockey and owner of Websleuths.com and owner of Forums for Justice.org.

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

delmar england wrote:
Letter to Boulder Colorado District Attorney, Mary Keenan

The crime scene consisted of an obviously bogus multi-page "ransom note" utilizing local materials. JonBenet's body was left in the basement of the Ramsey home with crude trappings falling woefully short of presenting a convincing kidnap\murder scene as it was intended to do. Even without pointing out more of a very long list of corroborating facts, the bogus note and inept staging is more than sufficient to isolate the perpetrators to the Ramsey household. Only a few minutes in examining and evaluating the evidence is required to reach this conclusion. It is impossible to reach any other conclusion on the facts. There was and is no evidentiary reason to look anywhere else. The only mystery to be solved was and is which Ramsey did what in relation to JonBenet's death.

Although it is not possible to reach any other conclusion from the evidence, it is possible to ignore the evidence and mentally invent "evidence" to take the place of truth and keep it hidden. Prompted by preconceived notions set in a context of money and political influence in conjunction with investigative cowardice and incompetence, this is precisely what has been going on for over six years.

delmar wrote:
Handwriting? Patsy has not been ruled out by several examiners. By my own analysis, not of the writing, but of the mind match between the note and Patsy is clear. This is explained in my analysis of the "ransom note." So far, neither you nor anyone else has quoted and challenged it. So, to say the handwriting does not match the Ramseys, thus all Ramseys are excluded as author, is just another arbitrary declaration without substance. Note the exclusion of Ramseys necessarily depends on the intruder idea of no factual substance.

DNA? So, it does not match the family. So what? Who does it match? Unknown? If unknown, how can it be known to connect to the crime and be "evidence?" If the source of this DNA were known, then factually connected to the crime scene, then it is evidence. Absence this, it is just more speculation that caters to intruder mental creation.

Does the DNA have to be connected to the crime? Could it not be from a benign source totally removed from the crime scene? Again, the alleged evidence evidences nothing except itself with no known connection to the crime. No outsider as perpetrator is required to explain the DNA since no connection is known as crime related.

The same is true for boot print, hairs, fibers, etc.. A close look into anyone's house would most likely turn up all sorts of things whose source were unknown whether there is a crime or not. To call something whose source and cause is unknown as evidence is to say it causal related while simultaneously saying cause is unknown, thus relationship unknown; more "negative evidence." If my recollection of high school Latin is correct, this could be called "ignotium per ignotius", the unknown by the more unknown.

This "Ramsey defense" "thinking" is a direct and absurd contradiction that is without limit. With this kind of "investigative latitude", I dare say that one could "prove" anything; or at least, convince the deluded self that he or she has done so. "negative evidence?" Surely, thou jest. I repeat: All known evidence is local.

delmar england wrote:
For every "could be", there is a "could be not", therefore, inconclusive until cause is known. Right? No thing is evidence until evidentiary cause is known. Right? Are we in agreement so far? If not, please point out what you think is my error in thinking, and why you think it is error.

A shoe print is found in the basement whose cause is unknown. It "could be" evidence of an intruder. "Could be not" is forgotten and "evidence" of an intruder is declared to be fact. There is a palm print with cause unknown; a rope with source unknown that "could be" something brought in by an intruder; an unidentified fiber, a baseball bat that "could have" been used by the intruder; a bit of dirt or leaves at a window well which "could have" been disturbed by an intruder. The list goes on and on and on.

This massive "evidence" stated to be more consistent with a theory of intruder than Ramsey guilt is hot air, nothing more than a string of unknowns verbally laced together on "could be", simultaneously divorced from the known, and declared to be much evidence of an intruder. Ridiculous to the max. No wonder no one will step forward and answer questions about alleged evidence of an alleged intruder. Its indefensible.

The beauty of truth is that it is consistent. Every fact is a complement of and blends with every other fact without contradiction. The presence of a contradiction is also the presence of error. Are we in agreement up to this point?

DNA? So, it does not match the family. So what? Who does it match? Unknown? If unknown, how can it be known to connect to the crime and be "evidence?" If the source of this DNA were known, then factually connected to the crime scene, then it is evidence. Absence this, it is just more speculation that caters to intruder mental creation.

Does the DNA have to be connected to the crime? Could it not be from a benign source totally removed from the crime scene? Again, the alleged evidence evidences nothing except itself with no known connection to the crime. No outsider as perpetrator is required to explain the DNA since no connection is known as crime related


The same is true for boot print, hairs, fibers, etc.. A close look into anyone's house would most likely turn up all sorts of things whose source were unknown whether there is a crime or not. To call something whose source and cause is unknown as evidence is to say it causal related while simultaneously saying cause is unknown, thus relationship unknown; more "negative evidence." If my recollection of high school Latin is correct, this could be called "ignotium per ignotius", the unknown by the more unknown.

This "Ramsey defense" "thinking" is a direct and absurd contradiction that is without limit. With this kind of "investigative latitude", I dare say that one could "prove" anything; or at least, convince the deluded self that he or she has done so. "negative evidence?" Surely, thou jest. I repeat: All known evidence is local.

by Leaman Crews wrote:
10 Criminals Who Were Caught Thanks to Trace Fiber Evidence
by Leaman Crews
fact checked by Darci Heikkinen

Analysis of fibers at a crime scene is one of the oldest forensic tools still in use by investigators today. Even though DNA has become the gold standard for forensic evidence, small fibers lifted from clothing, carpets, the trunks of cars, and other sources have tied suspects to crime scenes. Juries often seem convinced, as the presentation of fiber evidence has led to many convictions over the years. Yet, even with DNA, it is still considered one of the best forensic tools around.

Today we’ll look at 10 cases where trace fibers were used to convict these captured criminals.

10 Roger Payne
One of the earliest cases of a crime being solved thanks to fiber analysis took place in Bromley, England, in 1968. On February 8 of that year, Bernard Josephs came home to find a horrific scene—the lifeless body of his wife, Claire, underneath their bed. Her throat had been slashed so severely the wounds went all the way to her spine.

Roger Payne, a recent acquaintance of Bernard and Claire, was one of many people the police questioned, and they noticed he had scratches on his hands. Payne tried to explain away the scratches, but forensic analysis of his clothing found some very damning evidence. Claire had been wearing a wool dress at the time of her murder, and over 60 cerise wool fibers matching Claire’s dress were found on Payne’s clothing. This evidence helped secure a quick prosecution and ultimate conviction of Payne. He was sentenced to life in prison in May 1968, just three months after the murder.[1]
9 Bobby Joe Long

World’s Most Evil Killers – Season 3, Episode 11 – Bobby Joe Long – Full Episode

Sometimes the incriminating fibers are not found on the suspect but on the victim. Or in the terrifying case of serial killer Bobby Joe Long, multiple victims. Long would troll areas of Tampa, Florida, known for prostitution in his search for victims. Once he lured a woman to his car, he would take her back to his apartment and commit unspeakable acts of torture and rape, eventually killing them via strangulation, bludgeoning, or slitting their throats.

In all, there are ten women known to have been murdered by Long. Incredibly, he let two other victims—Linda Nuttall and Lisa McVey—go free after their attacks. The information McVey provided to police eventually led to Long’s arrest. The ten murders were conclusively linked to Long via red carpet fibers from his car. Matching fibers were found on each victim. As punishment for his many crimes, Long was executed by the state of Florida in 2019, with Lisa McVey (now Noland) among the witnesses.[2]


8 Caleb Hughes
Melissa Brannen: Missing | FULL EPISODE | The FBI Files

Melissa Brannen was five years old when she disappeared on December 3, 1989. Melissa and her mother, Tammy, lived at the Woodside Apartments in Lorton, Virginia, and had attended a Christmas party in the apartment complex that evening. After the party, Tammy and Melissa headed home, but Melissa returned to get some potato chips. She was supposed to come straight home but never made it back.

Caleb Hughes, the groundskeeper for the complex, immediately raised suspicions. This was due to witness reports that he had made inappropriate sexual comments to women at the party and had paid unusual attention to some children who were there, including Melissa. Police seized his Honda Civic sedan and examined the passenger’s seat for fiber evidence. Several fiber samples were taken, but the most important were 50 blue fibers linked to the sweater that Melissa was wearing when she vanished.

Hughes was convicted of abduction with intent to defile on March 8, 1991, and sentenced to 50 years in prison. He was released in 2019, having served about 54 percent of his sentence. Unfortunately, Melissa Brannen remains a missing person to this day.[3]
7 Glen Wolsieffer

Medical Detectives (Forensic Files) – Season 5, Episode 2 – Dew Process

On August 30, 1986, police were summoned to the home of local dentist Glen Wolsieffer and his wife, Betty. Glen had reported an intruder that he chased off with a gun. While investigating, police found Betty in the master bedroom, dead with strangulation marks around her neck. As the investigation continued, police uncovered a veritable soap opera full of infidelity and betrayal.

Glen had been seeing two other women, earning him the nickname “The Three-Timing Dentist.” But that wouldn’t be what pointed to Glen as the murderer of his wife; that turned out to be blue fibers under Betty’s fingernails that were linked to the denim outfit Glen had worn the night of the murder. In the end, Glen was convicted of Betty’s murder and received a sentence of eight to 20 years. He was paroled in 2005, after serving 13 years of that sentence.[4]


6 Robert Buell
The Ohio murders

Krista Harrison was an 11-year-old girl picking up aluminum cans at a Marshallville, Ohio, park on July 17, 1982, when a man suddenly grabbed her and dragged her into his van. Unfortunately, she would be found dead six days later in a rural area, inside of a car seat box.

Two years later, in 1984, 44-year-old Robert Buell was arrested for a separate crime. Police compared orange carpet fibers that had been found on Harrison’s body to the ones in Buell’s van and made a match. They also found evidence that Buell had purchased a car seat that matched the box Harrison was found in. Buell was ultimately convicted of Harrison’s murder and was executed for the crime in 2002. Buell, for this part, denied having any role in the Harrison case.

His last words, right before his execution, were addressed to Harrison’s parents: “Jerry and Shirley, I didn’t kill your daughter. The prosecutor knows that…and they left the real killer out there on the streets to kill again and again and again.”[5]
5 Craig Peyer
News 8 footage from trials of CHP officer Craig Peyer for 1986 murder of SDSU student Cara Knott

Craig Peyer was a California Highway Patrol officer who targeted women driving along California’s interstate highways, abusing his authority to make sexual advances. Unfortunately, this fact would not be brought to light until he was on trial for the murder of one of his victims, Cara Knott. Cara was a 20-year-old woman who disappeared on December 27, 1986, while driving from her boyfriend’s home in Escondido to her parents’ house in El Cajon.

On December 28, her car was found at a dead end of an I-15 off-ramp, and her body was recovered at the bottom of a nearby ravine. The tell-tale evidence against Peyer included an unusual gold rayon fiber found on Knott’s dress that was later matched to a patch Peyer wore on his uniform. Further investigation and more evidence led to Peyer’s conviction and a sentence of 25 years to life. He has applied for parole several times but has been repeatedly denied.[6]


4 Melanie McGuire
The suitcase murder mystery: What happened to Bill McGuire? | Nightline

Melanie McGuire is a former nurse who came to be known as “The Suitcase Killer.” The body of her husband, Bill, was found in a suitcase floating in the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia in 2004. Fibers found on Bill’s body matched the sofa that the McGuires had—which had curiously gone missing after Bill did.

There were also greenish-brown fibers that matched a pillow that Bill’s sister, Cindy Ligosh, said police also did not recover. Prosecutors theorized that Melanie shot bill through the pillow in an attempt to muffle the noise. Melanie was eventually arrested in 2005, and on July 19, 2007, she was sentenced to life in prison.[7]
3 Donna Perry

Killer Claims Murders Were Committed By “Past Self” – A Killer’s Mistake 104 – Douglas/Donna Perry

Murder has no statute of limitations, as Donna Perry found out when she was arrested in 2012 for the murders of three women–Kathy Brisbois, Yolanda Sapp, and Nickie Lowe. The crimes occurred between February and May 1990 in Spokane, Washington. Incredibly, they found fiber evidence in a 1969 International Scout that Perry had owned in 1990 but had sold years before her arrest.

Fibers from the Scout’s carpet matched fibers found on all three slain women. In another great find for investigators, a .22 caliber bullet that matched the ammunition used in the murders was also found in the vehicle. In 2017, Perry was convicted and received three life sentences for her crimes.[8]


2 Steven Pennell
Route 40 Killer: Delaware’s Serial Killer

Steven Pennell earned the moniker “The Route 40 Killer” after being convicted of abducting two women from U.S. Route 40 in Delaware and later murdering them. He was also suspected of killing three others. His reign of terror reached its end after the murder of 31-year-old Catherine DiMauro in June 1988.

When her body was found the next morning at a construction site, she was covered in blue carpet fiber that would be later linked to Pennell’s van. At his eventual trial, Pennell testified on his own behalf and made off-color jokes about paying his victims for sex in an attempt to explain away physical evidence. Pennell was eventually found guilty in 1990 and executed by lethal injection in 1992.[9]
1 Randy Kraft
Serial Killer: Randy Kraft (The Scorecard Killer) – Full Documentary

Between 1971 and 1983, Randy Kraft murdered an astounding 16 young men, making him one of the most notorious serial killers in American history. Some estimates place his death toll at an astronomical total of 67 people. He was surely emboldened by the number of times he got away with his crimes and may have assumed he’d never get caught.

In the end, it was carpet fibers found on a rug in his garage, matched to several of his victims, that provided the evidence needed to put him behind bars for good. He was convicted in 1989 and, to this day, is still incarcerated at San Quentin State Prison in California.[10]

"Brown cotton fibers on JonBenet's body, the paintbrush, the duct tape and on the ligature were not sourced and do not match anything in the Ramsey home. (SMF P 181; PSMF P 181.) (Carnes 2003:20).

It was originally reported "Small dark blue fibers, consistent with a cotton towel, were recovered from the vaginal area." These allegedly were consistent with John Ramsey's bathrobe.
Beckner Testimony. In his November 26, 2001 deposition for the Wolf/Ramsey suit, Mark Beckner was asked: "Because there were blue fibers found on the crime scene?" and responded "Yes" (p. 116, lines 10-12).

"Earlier in the case, the police had thought the fibers from the body came from John Ramsey’s bathrobe or Patsy’s black pants or from the blanket found near JonBenét or from the blanket that had been found inside the suitcase under the broken basement window. The fibers might also have come from JonBenét’s own clothes or from one of her stuffed animals. By now, however, all of those possibilities had been excluded [emphasis added], and the only logical explanation was that the fibers came from whatever had been used to wipe JonBenét or possibly from someone who might have rubbed up against her when she was unclothed, which allowed fibers to find their way along her skin and eventually into the folds of her labia. In any event, the clothes worn by Patsy and John on Christmas would have to be compared with the fibers" (Schiller 1999a:563;

"Animal hair, alleged to be from a beaver, was found on the duct tape. (SMF 183; PSMF 183.) Yet, nothing in defendants' home matches the hair (SMF 183; PSMF 183.), thereby suggesting either that the duct tape had been obtained from outside the home or that it had been carried outside the home at some point." (Carnes 2003:71).