Why RDI at forumsforjustice websleuth reddit are an anti-science lynch mob re: touch DNA

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:14 pm



on this blog i got a a request

searchinGirl wrote:Ponder the fatal flaw.... I wish you would comment on my subreddit... promise if you are nice and don’t use any profanity you will not be banned, I’ll work with you...

at forumsforjustice websleuth reddit


i've headed over there and i found RDI posts similar to this

Zero Objectivity In The JonBenet Ramsey Homicide Case - Why You Need To Revisit Your Theories

by Posted byu/[deleted]10 months ago

When you don't know the difference between an idea, a speculation, a theory and evidence - you'll run into trouble trying to get to know a case.

Excluding the ninja pedo fetish trolls who have arrived in full regalia to degrade both these subs with their twisted pedo fan fic fantasies, I'd assume the rest of us who bother to even remain subscribed still would like to discuss the case at length and hash out theories and whatnot. I would too but after an extended break to come back and see some of these ludicrous IDI posts that are no such thing - I see a serious discussion may now be too much to ask for.

This is a fleshed out write up on some things that need to be addressed. It's not the tldr version. If you want that, oh well.

WHAT WE KNOW

There are two primary camps: RDI and IDI. Ramsey(s) Did It and Intruder Did It. In the RDI camp, we have three sub camps: Patsy Did It (all), John Did It (all), and Burke Did It (R/J cover up). We all have the basis elements down and we all know there are plenty of questions that will never, ever be answered so the most we can do is try the most sensical, intuitive, logical, reasonable, and rational speculation and see if it adds up.

When it comes to the IDI camp, at this place 20 years later, it's pretty clear that IDI is a dinosaur to everyone who is familiar with the case. We get it now, there's plenty of evidence of RDI - but which R remains up for grabs. The IDI debate ended years ago with new information, insight, and revelations. It's only a "thing" for those who for whatever reasons never followed this case, never paid much attention, just didn't delve into it beyond the age old headlines and going ideas that those who have been more involved have known for awhile are refuted, discarded, irrelevant, etc.

Then there's the other faction of IDIer that are not seriously IDIers. They are trolls or Ramsey shills or mentally disturbed sorts, and of course, the twisted Karr style fetishists who want a canvas to roll out their disturbing fetish nonsense and attach it to this case. This camp doesn't actually care about this case, the facts or the evidence, or what happened to JonBenet. Their sole agenda is to degrade the discussion. They will neither respect nor regard the following points and will likely argue them in spite of reality. By their fruits they shall be known.

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/95s2u1/zero_objectivity_in_the_jonbenet_ramsey_homicide/


similarly,



trasha pictured below is an example of an anti-science denialist




this is what she claims

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?76520-Patsy-Ramsey/page92

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

As owner, I do my best to stay out of actual discussions about a crime.

The JBR case is the one expection.

Websleuths is a leader in true crime information as well as discussion. People come here to get information. It is imperative we deal with the facts. Not fantasy.

All I ask for are facts and a logical connecting of the dots. Logic and facts.

When I get time I will be going through the forum to make sure the JonBenet Ramsey forum is being held up to the high standards just like all our other forums on Websleuths.

The days of allowing anyone to post anything because it's part of their "theory" are gone. Facts and logic. Very simple.

this is her qualifications

Host Tricia Griffith is a veteran radio disc jockey and owner of Websleuths.com and owner of Forums for Justice.org.

in other words she has ZERO qualifications in forensic science. she has no training in forensic fiber, trace evidence, DNA yet she claims

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

similarly with Delmar England

delmar england wrote:
Letter to Boulder Colorado District Attorney, Mary Keenan

The crime scene consisted of an obviously bogus multi-page "ransom note" utilizing local materials. JonBenet's body was left in the basement of the Ramsey home with crude trappings falling woefully short of presenting a convincing kidnap\murder scene as it was intended to do. Even without pointing out more of a very long list of corroborating facts, the bogus note and inept staging is more than sufficient to isolate the perpetrators to the Ramsey household. Only a few minutes in examining and evaluating the evidence is required to reach this conclusion. It is impossible to reach any other conclusion on the facts. There was and is no evidentiary reason to look anywhere else. The only mystery to be solved was and is which Ramsey did what in relation to JonBenet's death.

Although it is not possible to reach any other conclusion from the evidence, it is possible to ignore the evidence and mentally invent "evidence" to take the place of truth and keep it hidden. Prompted by preconceived notions set in a context of money and political influence in conjunction with investigative cowardice and incompetence, this is precisely what has been going on for over six years.

delmar wrote:
Handwriting? Patsy has not been ruled out by several examiners. By my own analysis, not of the writing, but of the mind match between the note and Patsy is clear. This is explained in my analysis of the "ransom note." So far, neither you nor anyone else has quoted and challenged it. So, to say the handwriting does not match the Ramseys, thus all Ramseys are excluded as author, is just another arbitrary declaration without substance. Note the exclusion of Ramseys necessarily depends on the intruder idea of no factual substance.

DNA? So, it does not match the family. So what? Who does it match? Unknown? If unknown, how can it be known to connect to the crime and be "evidence?" If the source of this DNA were known, then factually connected to the crime scene, then it is evidence. Absence this, it is just more speculation that caters to intruder mental creation.

Does the DNA have to be connected to the crime? Could it not be from a benign source totally removed from the crime scene? Again, the alleged evidence evidences nothing except itself with no known connection to the crime. No outsider as perpetrator is required to explain the DNA since no connection is known as crime related.

The same is true for boot print, hairs, fibers, etc.. A close look into anyone's house would most likely turn up all sorts of things whose source were unknown whether there is a crime or not. To call something whose source and cause is unknown as evidence is to say it causal related while simultaneously saying cause is unknown, thus relationship unknown; more "negative evidence." If my recollection of high school Latin is correct, this could be called "ignotium per ignotius", the unknown by the more unknown.

This "Ramsey defense" "thinking" is a direct and absurd contradiction that is without limit. With this kind of "investigative latitude", I dare say that one could "prove" anything; or at least, convince the deluded self that he or she has done so. "negative evidence?" Surely, thou jest. I repeat: All known evidence is local.

delmar england wrote:
For every "could be", there is a "could be not", therefore, inconclusive until cause is known. Right? No thing is evidence until evidentiary cause is known. Right? Are we in agreement so far? If not, please point out what you think is my error in thinking, and why you think it is error.

A shoe print is found in the basement whose cause is unknown. It "could be" evidence of an intruder. "Could be not" is forgotten and "evidence" of an intruder is declared to be fact. There is a palm print with cause unknown; a rope with source unknown that "could be" something brought in by an intruder; an unidentified fiber, a baseball bat that "could have" been used by the intruder; a bit of dirt or leaves at a window well which "could have" been disturbed by an intruder. The list goes on and on and on.

This massive "evidence" stated to be more consistent with a theory of intruder than Ramsey guilt is hot air, nothing more than a string of unknowns verbally laced together on "could be", simultaneously divorced from the known, and declared to be much evidence of an intruder. Ridiculous to the max. No wonder no one will step forward and answer questions about alleged evidence of an alleged intruder. Its indefensible.

The beauty of truth is that it is consistent. Every fact is a complement of and blends with every other fact without contradiction. The presence of a contradiction is also the presence of error. Are we in agreement up to this point?

this is why they are an anti-science lynch mob and claims of no evidence of an intruder are bullshit

there have been cases that have been solved via touch DNA or DNA under the fingernail,

if RDI claims above are correct, should every case that has been solved via touch DNA be thrown out?

to take 2 examples,

Angie Housman 9

That scientific evidence came many years later, thanks to advances in genetic testing. Forensic scientists detected a DNA sample on a tiny scrap of fabric taken from the pink trim of Angie’s Barbie underwear, which matched Cox’s profile in a national database. It was one of the last pieces they had left to check. Testing the tiny scrap of fabric wouldn’t have been possible years earlier, Lohmar said, because until 2017, clothing dye made it difficult to get an accurate DNA sample.

Alie berrelez 5

The 18-year investigation into the kidnapping and murder of Alie Berrelez ended Tuesday 2011 where it began — with a now- dead suspect whose DNA matches genetic fingerprints recently extracted from the little girl’s underwear.

Test results from the Colorado Bureau of Investigation showed a definite genetic match between those newly obtained DNA samples and Nicholas Raymond Stofer, a welder who lived across a small apartment courtyard from the spot where 5-year-old Alie was last seen.

should the killers of Angie Housman 9 and Alie berrelez 5

and everyone who has been convicted by touch DNA or dna under fingernails be released, since according to RDI, touch DNA on the underwear is not evidence of JBR's killer?

imagine that there is a lab mix up,

the underwears of JonBenet Ramsey and Angie Housman 9 and Alie berrelez 5, all have unknown male DNA profiles,

but you don't know which DNA came from which underwear, and which underwear belonged to which murdered white female child,

how would you evaluate that unknown male DNA profile?

in The Unsolved Murder of JonBenet Ramsey

is finding additional 2 additional DNA profiles consistent with the DNA found in her underwear on a separate article of clothing more evidence or less evidence than finding 1 single DNA profile in the case of Angie Housman 9 and Alie berrelez 5?

again, if finding 3 DNA profiles of the same invidivdual in JBR's case on 2 separate articles of clothing is not evidence of an intruder,

are you prepared to state that in each and every case 1 single DNA profile on clothing is not evidence and every killer convicted based on this evidence should be tossed and killer let go free?

imagine presenting underwear to RDI, and telling them this is JBR's underwear and they find unknown male DNA, they immediately say thats not evidence of anything,

but then tell them, well actually it's the underwear of Angie Housman 9 or Alie berrelez 5

is that unknown male DNA profile evidence or not?

second is

delmar wrote:
Handwriting? Patsy has not been ruled out by several examiners. By my own analysis, not of the writing, but of the mind match between the note and Patsy is clear. This is explained in my analysis of the "ransom note." So far, neither you nor anyone else has quoted and challenged it. So, to say the handwriting does not match the Ramseys, thus all Ramseys are excluded as author, is just another arbitrary declaration without substance. Note the exclusion of Ramseys necessarily depends on the intruder idea of no factual substance.

DNA? So, it does not match the family. So what? Who does it match? Unknown? If unknown, how can it be known to connect to the crime and be "evidence?" If the source of this DNA were known, then factually connected to the crime scene, then it is evidence. Absence this, it is just more speculation that caters to intruder mental creation.

Does the DNA have to be connected to the crime? Could it not be from a benign source totally removed from the crime scene? Again, the alleged evidence evidences nothing except itself with no known connection to the crime. No outsider as perpetrator is required to explain the DNA since no connection is known as crime related.

The same is true for boot print, hairs, fibers, etc.. A close look into anyone's house would most likely turn up all sorts of things whose source were unknown whether there is a crime or not. To call something whose source and cause is unknown as evidence is to say it causal related while simultaneously saying cause is unknown, thus relationship unknown; more "negative evidence." If my recollection of high school Latin is correct, this could be called "ignotium per ignotius", the unknown by the more unknown.

This "Ramsey defense" "thinking" is a direct and absurd contradiction that is without limit. With this kind of "investigative latitude", I dare say that one could "prove" anything; or at least, convince the deluded self that he or she has done so. "negative evidence?" Surely, thou jest. I repeat: All known evidence is local.

delmar england fucking bullshit of "ignotium per ignotius", the unknown by the more unknown.


is pure fucking bullshit.

as evidence by this


Angie Housman 9

That scientific evidence came many years later, thanks to advances in genetic testing. Forensic scientists detected a DNA sample on a tiny scrap of fabric taken from the pink trim of Angie’s Barbie underwear, which matched Cox’s profile in a national database. It was one of the last pieces they had left to check. Testing the tiny scrap of fabric wouldn’t have been possible years earlier, Lohmar said, because until 2017, clothing dye made it difficult to get an accurate DNA sample.

Alie berrelez 5

The 18-year investigation into the kidnapping and murder of Alie Berrelez ended Tuesday 2011 where it began — with a now- dead suspect whose DNA matches genetic fingerprints recently extracted from the little girl’s underwear.

Test results from the Colorado Bureau of Investigation showed a definite genetic match between those newly obtained DNA samples and Nicholas Raymond Stofer, a welder who lived across a small apartment courtyard from the spot where 5-year-old Alie was last seen.

the forensic files routinely deals with the same forensic evidence found in the Jonbenet case, and at no point do they say it's unknown therefore cause is unknown.

the fact cynic endorses this bullshit shows he really had no understanding of forensics, yet they claim RDI in the Jonbenet case.

cynic you can join me here if you want.