Debbie Lynn Randal and JonBenet Ramsey DNA

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

As owner, I do my best to stay out of actual discussions about a crime.

The JBR case is the one expection.

Websleuths is a leader in true crime information as well as discussion. People come here to get information. It is imperative we deal with the facts. Not fantasy.

All I ask for are facts and a logical connecting of the dots. Logic and facts.

When I get time I will be going through the forum to make sure the JonBenet Ramsey forum is being held up to the high standards just like all our other forums on Websleuths.

The days of allowing anyone to post anything because it's part of their "theory" are gone. Facts and logic. Very simple.

Host Tricia Griffith is a veteran radio disc jockey and owner of Websleuths.com and owner of Forums for Justice.org.

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

delmar england wrote:
Letter to Boulder Colorado District Attorney, Mary Keenan

The crime scene consisted of an obviously bogus multi-page "ransom note" utilizing local materials. JonBenet's body was left in the basement of the Ramsey home with crude trappings falling woefully short of presenting a convincing kidnap\murder scene as it was intended to do. Even without pointing out more of a very long list of corroborating facts, the bogus note and inept staging is more than sufficient to isolate the perpetrators to the Ramsey household. Only a few minutes in examining and evaluating the evidence is required to reach this conclusion. It is impossible to reach any other conclusion on the facts. There was and is no evidentiary reason to look anywhere else. The only mystery to be solved was and is which Ramsey did what in relation to JonBenet's death.

Although it is not possible to reach any other conclusion from the evidence, it is possible to ignore the evidence and mentally invent "evidence" to take the place of truth and keep it hidden. Prompted by preconceived notions set in a context of money and political influence in conjunction with investigative cowardice and incompetence, this is precisely what has been going on for over six years.

delmar wrote:
Handwriting? Patsy has not been ruled out by several examiners. By my own analysis, not of the writing, but of the mind match between the note and Patsy is clear. This is explained in my analysis of the "ransom note." So far, neither you nor anyone else has quoted and challenged it. So, to say the handwriting does not match the Ramseys, thus all Ramseys are excluded as author, is just another arbitrary declaration without substance. Note the exclusion of Ramseys necessarily depends on the intruder idea of no factual substance.

DNA? So, it does not match the family. So what? Who does it match? Unknown? If unknown, how can it be known to connect to the crime and be "evidence?" If the source of this DNA were known, then factually connected to the crime scene, then it is evidence. Absence this, it is just more speculation that caters to intruder mental creation.

Does the DNA have to be connected to the crime? Could it not be from a benign source totally removed from the crime scene? Again, the alleged evidence evidences nothing except itself with no known connection to the crime. No outsider as perpetrator is required to explain the DNA since no connection is known as crime related.

The same is true for boot print, hairs, fibers, etc.. A close look into anyone's house would most likely turn up all sorts of things whose source were unknown whether there is a crime or not. To call something whose source and cause is unknown as evidence is to say it causal related while simultaneously saying cause is unknown, thus relationship unknown; more "negative evidence." If my recollection of high school Latin is correct, this could be called "ignotium per ignotius", the unknown by the more unknown.

This "Ramsey defense" "thinking" is a direct and absurd contradiction that is without limit. With this kind of "investigative latitude", I dare say that one could "prove" anything; or at least, convince the deluded self that he or she has done so. "negative evidence?" Surely, thou jest. I repeat: All known evidence is local.

delmar england wrote:
For every "could be", there is a "could be not", therefore, inconclusive until cause is known. Right? No thing is evidence until evidentiary cause is known. Right? Are we in agreement so far? If not, please point out what you think is my error in thinking, and why you think it is error.

A shoe print is found in the basement whose cause is unknown. It "could be" evidence of an intruder. "Could be not" is forgotten and "evidence" of an intruder is declared to be fact. There is a palm print with cause unknown; a rope with source unknown that "could be" something brought in by an intruder; an unidentified fiber, a baseball bat that "could have" been used by the intruder; a bit of dirt or leaves at a window well which "could have" been disturbed by an intruder. The list goes on and on and on.

This massive "evidence" stated to be more consistent with a theory of intruder than Ramsey guilt is hot air, nothing more than a string of unknowns verbally laced together on "could be", simultaneously divorced from the known, and declared to be much evidence of an intruder. Ridiculous to the max. No wonder no one will step forward and answer questions about alleged evidence of an alleged intruder. Its indefensible.

The beauty of truth is that it is consistent. Every fact is a complement of and blends with every other fact without contradiction. The presence of a contradiction is also the presence of error. Are we in agreement up to this point?

DNA? So, it does not match the family. So what? Who does it match? Unknown? If unknown, how can it be known to connect to the crime and be "evidence?" If the source of this DNA were known, then factually connected to the crime scene, then it is evidence. Absence this, it is just more speculation that caters to intruder mental creation.

Does the DNA have to be connected to the crime? Could it not be from a benign source totally removed from the crime scene? Again, the alleged evidence evidences nothing except itself with no known connection to the crime. No outsider as perpetrator is required to explain the DNA since no connection is known as crime related


The same is true for boot print, hairs, fibers, etc.. A close look into anyone's house would most likely turn up all sorts of things whose source were unknown whether there is a crime or not. To call something whose source and cause is unknown as evidence is to say it causal related while simultaneously saying cause is unknown, thus relationship unknown; more "negative evidence." If my recollection of high school Latin is correct, this could be called "ignotium per ignotius", the unknown by the more unknown.

This "Ramsey defense" "thinking" is a direct and absurd contradiction that is without limit. With this kind of "investigative latitude", I dare say that one could "prove" anything; or at least, convince the deluded self that he or she has done so. "negative evidence?" Surely, thou jest. I repeat: All known evidence is local.

Suspect identified in cold case of girl abducted, killed in Cobb County
Debbie Lynn Randall was taken from Marietta in January 1972. Her body was found weeks later near Windy Hill and Powers Ferry Road.



COBB COUNTY, Ga. — The Cobb County district attorney is bringing closure to an over 50-year-old cold case that involves a nine-year-old girl who was abducted, sexually assaulted, and killed.

11Alive most recently followed the Debbie Lynn Randall case back in 2018, sitting down with the girl’s father. The apartment complex where Randall lived has since been replaced with a Cobb County bus station and most elements of the crime scene are gone. That's why 11Alive hired a graphic artist to recreate the moments leading up to her disappearance and the search to find her killer.

Randall was taken from Marietta in January 1972. Her body was two weeks later near Windy Hill and Powers Ferry Road after more than 4,000 people had come out to search.


During a press conference on Monday, authorities announced that they had identified William B. Rose of Mableton as the suspect in the case.

They add that Rose was 24 years old at the time of the killing, but died from suicide two years later in 1974.

Investigators said what ultimately helped them in their investigation was a piece of cloth found on Randall’s body, which had been preserved by Marietta Police.

"They collected the evidence and processed the scene meticulously. The preservation of that evidence was instrumental in solving the case," said Ron Alter, the head of Cobb's cold case unit.

Authorities were able to use the item to gather DNA evidence, something not possible in 1972, and then turn to genetic genealogy to narrow in on a suspect.




DA Flynn Broady says several family members had participated in a public DNA database to help people identify others in their family tree. They later gave permission for police to exhume Rose's body to confirm the match.

"The answer we are providing today won't bring her back. We can't extract justice from the perpetrator, but I know he must answer to a higher power," said Broady.

Authorities explained that, to their knowledge, Rose and Randall did not know each other well. However, they explained that Rose did have family that lived in the same complex as Randall and children were often seen playing outside on a nearby playground, indicating it was certainly possible the killer saw his victim sometime prior.

"Technology does not get old, it does not retire, it does not get sick. And it doesn't quit. Technology was seeking William Rose and it found him in the grave," said Morris Nix, a retired detective with the Cobb County Sheriff's Office who also helped work with the cold case unit to find the killer.



While the girl’s parents died before the case could be solved, Randall’s brother, Melvin, was in attendance. He says he forgives Rose and empathizes with his family as they now come to terms with the truth.

"For a long time, I blamed myself and so forth because I was the big brother. And I battled with it for a while and then I realized there was nothing I could have done," said Melvin Randall, who was 10 years old when his sister disappeared.

“My family appreciates everything they’ve done,” Melvin said in regard to investigators’ tireless push for answers. “I would like to say, I wish my mother was here. I know she knows in heaven now that it’s finally over.”

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/crime/cobb-county-cold-case-nine-year-old-killed/85-0533bf70-08df-4df6-a43b-d120f51c0515

Investigators identified a 9-year-old girl's killer more than 50 years after she was abducted less than a block from her Georgia home, officials said Monday.

Debbie Lynn Randall, a third-grade student, vanished on Jan. 13, 1972, Cobb County District Attorney Flynn Broady said. She had been on her way home from a laundromat. Randall's body was found 16 days later after an extensive search by thousands of people. She had been sexually assaulted and strangled.

"As time went on, detectives followed up on hundreds of leads to no avail," Broady said.
Debbie Lynn Randall / Credit: Cobb County District Attorney's Office
Debbie Lynn Randall / Credit: Cobb County District Attorney's Office

That changed with the advances in DNA and forensic technology. During the original investigation, officers with the Marietta Police Department recovered a hair from the suspect and a piece of cloth, Broady said. An October 2001 FBI test on the hair allowed investigators to rule out many potential suspects.

In May of 2015, the cloth recovered by police was sent to forensics for an updated analysis, which resulted in a partial profile attributed to an unknown male. Additional funding was obtained for DNA testing in 2019 and the cloth was analyzed again in 2022. This year, DNA Labs International was selected to conduct further testing.

They were able to find relatives of the suspect, officials said. Those relatives gave investigators additional DNA samples for comparison. Investigators landed on a man who had not been on their radar at any point during the investigation: William Rose, 24. He'd killed himself in 1974.

"We exhumed the suspect's body for DNA testing to rule out any doubts," Broady said.

Debbie Lynn Randall's parents died without ever knowing who killed their daughter, Broady said. Her mother died of leukemia in 2018 and her father died just last year.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cold-case-solved-more-50-233035988.html

In May the cloth recovered of 2015,by police was sent to forensics for an updated analysis, which resulted in a partial profile attributed to an unknown male. Additional funding was obtained for DNA testing in 2019 and the cloth was analyzed again in 2022. This year, DNA Labs International was selected to conduct further testing.