Miss Marple petition volunteer to edit Jonbenet Ramsey wiki to include Mr Cruel/OCCK

the Jonbenet Ramsey wiki


http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com

has a list of intruder suspects and theories, last updated by Miss Marple 1 month ago

here under Stranger Intruder Theories

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682510/Stranger%20Intruder%20Theories

now i applied several times and i never heard back.

i ask for a volunteer of http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com

either Miss Marple or anyone else to edit

intruder theories to include

Mr Cruel did it

and link to my blog


and OCCK did it

and also link to my blog.

of all the intruder theories on the internet, you'll be hard pressed to find an intruder theory as richly detailed and fleshed out as the Mr Cruel murdered Jonbenet Ramsey theory, based on
official primary news sources on Mr Cruel's known home intruder crimes on young girls.

so yes, given the intruder theories that are listed on that page
i think there should be an entry for my 2 theories, and full credit to *me*

Mr Cruel and OCCK murdered Jonbenet Ramsey would fall under stranger intruder theories
and Miss Maple is active as of last month in updating it

i tried to reach Miss Marple but without success

this wiki, last editted by Miss Marple also posts speculation from individual internet posters, see below by

Internet poster Dan in Detroit claims that Gary McGreen is the killer, in collaboration with Fleet White. Gary's known m.o. (redressing his child victims) was seen in JBR's case. Dan in Detroit claims that because the newspaper containing John Ramsey's circled face was 14 months old, the killing was planned at least a year in advance.

and

Phone Phreakers
The Phone Phreakers Theory

Internet poster Lighthouse claims to have solved the killing years ago but has been repeatedly rebuffed in his efforts to take his theory seriously. His alleged perp is someone called Netmask but he was assisted by two others who were unaware that Netmask would do what he did. A brief scenario of the crime is laid out here.

what I want is to see either Miss Marple or someone else at that wiki edit the stranger intruder theories to include

internet poster redpill has offers 2 stranger intruder theories (actually i have more, such as a serial killer speculated to operate in Conneticut/Mass targetting young blue eyed blonde girls over two decades Molly Bish, etc.,)

Redpill's first and most thoroughly researched is that a stranger intruder named Mr Cruel, famous for his home intruder cimes in Melbourne Australia, travelled to Boulder Colorado and targetted Jonbenet Ramsey. he outlines his case here

Sharon Wills and I believe Mr. Cruel murdered Jonbenet Ramsey a case linkage analysis

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t902-sharon-wills-and-i-believe-mr-cruel-murdered-jonbenet-ramsey-a-case-linkage-analysis?highlight=sharon+wills

and throughout his blog here

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/f38-redpill-s-blog

below is the cut and paste of what i would like to see emended.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682510/Stranger%20Intruder%20Theories


Overview
How Would Stranger Know JonBenet Ramsey?

With a stranger intruder, there is always the question of motivation. How would a stranger even have become aware of JBR?
"Detective Smit opined that there were several factors that could have motivated an intruder to commit this horrific crime. First, defendants were prominent in the community and had thrown several large events at their home, thereby providing a large number of people the opportunity to learn the house's floor plan. Second, Mr. Ramsey received considerable attention due to the financial success of his company. In fact, news articles were published that detailed the company's financial success and mentioned Mr. Ramsey in great detail. (SMF P 121; PSMF P 121.) In the weeks leading up to the murder, Detective Smit notes that defendants had a large party at their home in which they entertained hundreds of people from their church. Also, Mr. Ramsey had spoken at his company's Christmas party and praised the employees for passing the one billion dollar mark in sales. (Smit Dep. at 148.) Third, Detective Smit states that JonBenet was a "pedophile's dream come true." (SMF P 122; PSMF P 122.) JonBenet received considerable public attention as "Little Miss Colorado" and through several beauty pageants in which she participated. (SMF P 121; PSMF P 121.) On December 6, 1996, three 102 weeks before the murder, she was in the Lights of December Parade, an event thousands of people attended. (Smit. Dep. at 147.)" (Carnes 2003:101).
Boulder Cold Cases. Internet poster Mikie has provided a summary of three Boulder cold cases involving murdered children.


Stranger Intruders Apparently Ignored by Law Enforcement

Party Near Ramsey House on Christmas Night. Internet poster JT Colfax claims there was "wild party" a "few doors away" from the Ramseys that began around 2:00 and went until 6:00 AM, involving at least two individuals who subsequently were jailed (which is where Colfax got his information). One of the partygoers left by cab and later was told that police were obtaining information on all cab riders at that time of the morning. Colfax claims law enforcement never contacted this individual or anyone else present at the party even though police observed them leaving early in the morning.


Unsolved Homicides in Boulder Area

Unsolved Boulder crimes (2007)
Alie Berrellez. This case involved the kidnap and murder of a 5-year girl in Englewood in May 1993 (44 min. from Boulder).


Attempt to Frame Theory

The Attempt To Frame (ATF) theory addresses the premise: if the Ramseys didn’t commit this murder then maybe someone wanted us to think that they did. The theory can be found here.

Burglar

Kevin Raburn was arrested for check forgery and questioned about JBR murder. See Webbsleuths forum chat for further discussion.
Numerous Local Burglaries in 1996. In 2005, 48 Hours reported: that private detectives John San Augustin and Ollie Gray had learned "that in the months before JonBenet's murder, there were more than 100 burglaries in her neighborhood."
Midnight Burglar in December 1996. BPD issued a press release 1.23.97: "Residents Reminded to Lock Doors and Windows at Night Boulder Police are advising residents to be certain they lock their doors following a rash of nighttime burglaries which appear to be related. The burglaries date back to December 12, 1996 and the most recent report was on December 25, 1996. There is no descriptions of the person(s) responsible but some common information about these 14 incidents appear to link the crimes" (full text at Webbsleuths forum chat). See Webbsleuths forum chat for further discussion of this case.
Nick Lowe (The Boulder Burglar). According to J.T. Colfax's diary, "there used to be a prisoner here named Nick Lowe. He was my neighbor. "The Boulder Burgler." Eighty-six counts of burglary. Det. Gosage came to tape record him here at the jail. They took hair, saliva, and handwriting from him too. This was in about August '97. Then I was removed from the POD. Nick's mother had moved to Victoria, Canada not far from where I was when the Death happened. Det. Gosage called her there. Her name is Debbi Lowe. Nick is in a Minnesotta prison, as Colorado overflow."
September 2007 - Burglar dies after fall
Aug 2014 - Burglaries reported
Boulder Burglar - August 2015. A graying suspect was broke into a woman's house on August 17, 2015. According to Jameson, "This happened years after our murder, but the man is graying so may be worth a second glance. Also of interest is the southern accent."
Nick Duskin. This perp was arrested in October 2015 as a suspect in dozens of burglaries. He was 31 then, hence too young to plausibly be a suspect in JBR's death. However, an important feature of his MO was that in many cases people were home and sleeping at the time of the crimes. See Webbsleuths forum chat for further discussion of this case.


Foreign Political Faction


Kidnapping Gone Wrong
Kidnapping Gone Wrong Theory

Several theories have been advanced, with perps ranging from bungling adolescents or inexperienced kidnappers to more experienced kidnappers taken by surprise by JBR's scream. See evidence related to was this a kidnapping for ransom?


Evidence For Kidnapping Gone Wrong Theory

Smit Theory. Detective Lou Smit, who had access to all the case materials up until his resignation, has stated: "I believe that the killer had started out with a kidnapping in mind...." "I believe that he was going to take her out of house. There is some evidence to suggest that he did perhaps try to put her in a suitcase. Perhaps he couldn't get the suitcase in the window and then get out of the window himself. Perhaps he got into the window and couldn't pull the suitcase out after him. So, I don't know why he suddenly went to that basement room, fashioned a garrote from something that was right there in plain sight and brutally murdered JonBenet. Perhaps she knew him. Perhaps she screamed. Something triggered this man to kill JonBenet in a very brutal fashion" (Larry King Live, May 28, 2001; quote and source provided by Internet poster Margoo.
One argues that this is the work of adolescents who mistakenly thought they could make some easy money. The language of the RN and numerous references to movie lines are used to support this claim. * Another argues that this is the work of an inexperienced perp (not necessarily adolescent). The detailed instructions in the RN and presumption that the note was written in advance of the killing (since the killer(s) would have been too agitated to write such a lengthy note after the fact) are used in support of this claim.
Internet poster JusticeSeeker has offered an elaborate scenario involving 2 kidnappers whose plans are thwarted by JBR's scream.


Evidence Against Kidnapping Gone Wrong Theory

FBI Profiler Ressler View. Former FBI profiler Robert Ressler, in a June 1997 interview, argues based on publicly available evidence (he did not have access to police files) that it was unlikely that a kidnapper was involved as it is extremely rare for a kidnapper to take a child from their own house (this greatly elevates risk of detection or leaving behind incriminating evidence).
Some arguments against the kidnapping-gone-wrong scenario are here.
Internet poster Anti-K has offered reasons why a kidnapping gone wrong scenario is inconsistent with the available forensic evidence, hence there was no plan or effort to get JBR out of the house.


Message to FBI Profilers
Message to FBI Profilers Theory

Some believe the perp was taunting the profilers and showing s/he could "get away" with a heinous crime without getting caught.
Motivation. The principal motivation for the murder is to taunt the profilers and perhaps in some fashion "get even" with them. The perp may have had John Douglas in mind.


Evidence For Message to FBI Profilers Theory

There are several "clues" in the Ransom Note that potentially have a connection to John Douglas, probably the nation's most visible and publicly recognizable profiler.

SBTC. In John Douglas's Mindhunter pages 137 -166 four killers are discussed in succession and in this order: Son of sam; BTK; Trailside killer; Carmine calabro; i.e., S.B.T.C (observed by Internet poster AntiK).
118 may be based on number of victims in Sexual Homicides: Patterns and Motives "the" profiling handbook authored by John Douglas (observed by Internet poster Rainsong). This number is also mentioned in Mindhunter (observed by Internet poster AntiK).
But it may also refer to the length of Silence of the Lambs (118 minutes); John Douglas was the model for profiler Jack Crawford in this movie (observed by Internet poster Rainsong).
The writer of the ransom note switches from Mr. Ramsey to John, tells John "not to grow a brain" and that "it's up to you, John," messages that arguably could have been aimed at Douglas rather than Ramsey.


Evidence Against Message to FBI Profilers Theory


Phone Phreakers
The Phone Phreakers Theory

Internet poster Lighthouse claims to have solved the killing years ago but has been repeatedly rebuffed in his efforts to take his theory seriously. His alleged perp is someone called Netmask but he was assisted by two others who were unaware that Netmask would do what he did. A brief scenario of the crime is laid out here.


Incriminating Evidence Against the Phone Phreakers

BNF Disruption. These particular perps disrupted the Boulder News Forum and Lighthouse views this as suspicious behavior. He believes they were trying to throw Internet sleuthers off track by this activity.


Exculpatory Evidence Favoring the Phone Phreakers

Lighthouse is a Fiction Writer. Lighthouse is a self-proclaimed fiction writer among other things.
Inaccurate Lighthouse Prediction. On March 7, 2005, Lighthouse predicted "It'll be over within the year" meaning the case will be solved.


Serial Killer
BTK-style Serial Killer
The BTK-style Serial Killer Theory

Serial Killers in General. A general profile of male serial killers is here.
Serial Killers in the JBR Case. A good discussion of a killer who planned this in advance (and for whom selection of JBR was mostly happenstance) is here.


Evidence For BTK-style Serial Killer Theory

BTK Killer Comparisons. Specific comparisons of the JBR evidence and how it compares to the homicides known to be committed by the BTK killer are here.


Evidence Against BTK-style Serial Killer Theory

Serial Killer Does Not Fit Profile.

Serial Killer Expert Ressler View. Robert Ressler, a leading authority on serial killers, did an interview in June 1997, argues based on publicly available evidence (he did not have access to police files) that it was unlikely that a serial killer was involved.
RN Was Staging. Specifically, believes that no kidnapping was intended and the RN was staging intended as a diversion and that JBR probably knew her killer.
Case Extremely Unusual. He indicated the killing was the most unusual he has seen in his career in terms of both police investigative errors and the evidence itself.
Entering House Unusual. Kidnappers of children typically do not enter a residence since it escalates risk 10-fold; the exceptions are sexual predators who abduct a child and take them from the home to assault them.
Writing a RN Risky. Moreover, writing a note simply gives LE more evidence with which to find killer.
Crime Does Not Fit Serial Killer or Sexual Predator Profile. He doesn't think crime was committed by either a serial killer or sexual predator.


Gary McGreen
The Gary McGreen Theory

Internet poster Dan in Detroit claims that Gary McGreen is the killer, in collaboration with Fleet White. Gary's known m.o. (redressing his child victims) was seen in JBR's case. Dan in Detroit claims that because the newspaper containing John Ramsey's circled face was 14 months old, the killing was planned at least a year in advance.
Murder Planned at Least One Year in Advance. "Gary told me that they were planning the murder the year before at Christmas but that Fleet had to do something go somewhere. Gary got the dog hair 18 months before killing."
How Crime Was Committed. Dan in Detroit provides the following details of how the crime was committed (post #501):

"He was in the house at 8. He went directly to the cellar room. Fleet had told him where the light switch was. He looked the house over. Was planning to be in the guest room but Patsy was packing in there, so he waited downstairs in basement."
"About 11 he`d just come upstairs to 1st floor grabbed the Maglite, heard noise, hid. There came Jonbenet downstairs from 2nd to 1st floor.(She ate pineapple)"
"He grabbed her wearing brown gloves, took her down to basement, stunned her, as he fondles her she awoke and screamed, he kneed her in head, lay there waiting to see if anyone heard, when police didn`t show in time it would take(he knew time because Fleet called 911) he garotted her in boiler room."
"She had messed pants. They said Friday. That wouldn`t do, this was a Wed murder. He`s killed lots on wed-sun. 2nd kid with same name had to be killed wed- sun. He`d already killed Ramsay in MT in 1996. Things had gone well, he had time. Went to 2nd floor. Parents slept on 3rd floor. Couldn`t find underpants, searched drawers, ripped open package, took out WED, didm`t know were too big, took blanket, etc. Heard noise. Went back downstairs."
"Jonbenet partly loose, paintbrush broken. Hit her in head with flashlight. Changed underwear, not shirt, tightened garotte, stuck something in her, went and put note on steps and johns picture, returned flashlight, returned, wiped her out, wiped off crusty spot blood with finger, put her in cellar, inspected blanket, ripped fibre 4 pieces, used tweezers put piece in garotte and put piece under tape, left through window, slipped on suitcase. etc..."


Evidence for the The Gary McGreen Theory


Evidence Against the The Gary McGreen Theory


Sexual Predator


Student

UC Boulder Political Science Major. A UC Boulder political science major was investigated in connection with the Susannah Chase murder that occurred a year after JBR's death. The student also told a friend he wanted a bumper sticker that said, "I Killed Her." When asked who he was referring to, the CU student said, "Either one, JonBenét Ramsey or Susannah Chase," according to an affidavit. Further details at acandyrose.com.

Interesting.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682510/Stranger%20Intruder%20Theories#SexualPredator

it would go under 10

10 Sexual Predator

i will try to emulate the passages

Internet poster redpill....

right now i'm reading up on mollie tibbets

I’m an Editor at JBRCE. I wonder why MzMarple didn’t respond to you? But if you wouldn’t mind writing a summary and the pro and con points, I’ll put it in there.

searchinGirl wrote:I’m an Editor at JBRCE. I wonder why MzMarple didn’t respond to you? But if you wouldn’t mind writing a summary and the pro and con points, I’ll put it in there.

could you first post this under stranger intruder theories 10 sexual predators

Internet Poster redpill has proposed that the Oakland County Child Killer, OCCK, a child serial killer who abducted children from Oakland County Michigan in the 1970s could be the author of the Jonbenet Ramsey ransom note, and therefore, Jonbenet's killer. Redpill observed many possible points of similarity between the Allan Letter, believed to be written by the Oakland County Child Killer, and the Jonbenet Ramsey ransom note leads him to conclude that the author of the Allan Letter and the Jonbenet ransom note is the same person. The author of the OCCK Allan letter was therefore in the Ramsey home and penned the Jonbenet ransom note.

Oakland County Child Killer victim profile includes abducting 4 children of ages similar to Jonbenet, and the bodies of the children lead investigators to believe ligature was used. He was never identified or caught. Internet poster rootlesswriter is familiar with redpill's theory, contacted redpill, and proposes a name for both OCCK and Jonbenet's killer, who moved from Michigan to Arvada Colorado, and has since passed away.

pros

Finding a possible match to the Jonbenet Ramsey document

cons

no evidence of any OCCK activity after 1970

^^^

let me know when you've added it and i'll also write up one for Mr Cruel.

it's posted. I think it needs more text right there so people get more of the story without linking, but I want to put a link to your blog too. Lets work on it.

searchinGirl wrote:it's posted. I think it needs more text right there so people get more of the story without linking, but I want to put a link to your blog too. Lets work on it.

thanks. i see you have. i also plan one for mr cruel but here are my links

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t568-oakland-county-child-killer-allan-letter-jonbenet-ramsey-ransom-note-text-same-author?highlight=allan

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t839-rootlesswriter-i-got-your-message-oakland-county-child-killer-jonbent?highlight=oakland

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t569-i-believe-oakland-county-child-killer-murdered-jonbenet-ramsey-and-amy-mihaljevic-pt-1?highlight=oakland

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t570-i-believe-oakland-county-child-killer-murdered-jonbenet-ramsey-pt-2?highlight=oakland

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t568-oakland-county-child-killer-allan-letter-jonbenet-ramsey-ransom-note-text-same-author?highlight=oakland

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t571-i-believe-oakland-county-child-killer-murdered-jonbenet-ramsey-pt-3?highlight=oakland

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t572-i-believe-oakland-county-child-killer-murdered-jonbenet-ramsey-pt-4?highlight=oakland

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t573-oakland-county-child-killer-jonbenet-ramsey-theory-explanatory-power-pt-5?highlight=oakland

https://jbrwdi.forumotion.com/t567-amy-mihaljevic-jonbenet-allan-and-oakland-county-child-killer-and-the-ransom-note?highlight=oakland

rootlesswriter posts are on reddit/jonbenet

btw was this forum down 4u last nite? it was for me

redpill wrote:btw was this forum down 4u last nite? it was for me

It was for me too. Website wouldn't load and I got the network error message. I gave up trying after a couple of times.

MurderMysteryReader wrote:

redpill wrote:btw was this forum down 4u last nite? it was for me

It was for me too. Website wouldn't load and  I got the network error message. I gave up trying after a couple of times.

i guess that confirms it then

Yes I tried for a while. Like 2 or 3 hours. Not constantly but at least once an hour.

searchinGirl wrote:Yes I tried for a while. Like 2 or 3 hours. Not constantly but at least once an hour.

glad i wasnt the only one to see this, like the ufo i saw when i was a kid

I had some work to do today. But I was able to try to help pull this together . I’m just curious if there is anything I should know? Is rootless okay with this? MzMarple gets notified when I make changes so I figured if she had any objections she would let me know. Don’t want to get blasted by fury.

searchinGirl wrote:I had some work to do today. But I was able to try to help pull this together . I’m just curious if there is anything I should know? Is rootless okay with this? MzMarple gets notified when I make changes so I figured if she had any objections she would let me know. Don’t want to get blasted by fury.

on reddit

The strange case of Barbara Mackle. (Thanks Redpill) : JonBenet ...
https://www.reddit.com/r/.../the_strange_case_of_barbara_mackle_thanks_redpill/

Oct 8, 2016 - 1 post - ‎1 author
(Thanks Redpill) (coastalbreezenews.com). submitted 1 year ... [–]rootlesswriter[S] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (2 children). look at the ...


Wanting to learn more about the case : JonBenetRamsey
Aug 15, 2018


Really interesting look at criminal psychopathy by redpill, worth ...
Nov 1, 2017


Comparison between Jonbenet Ramsey letter and OCCK letter by redpill ...
Sep 21, 2017


Fager Family Theory : JonBenet

on star wars,

always 2 there are.

the master and the apprentice.

but which was banned? the master or the apprentice

rootlesswriter really digs my occk theory and i'm flattered

but i actually prefer my mr cruel theory

this forum was down yesterday the entire day so i'm running behind

Ok I posted a page with links to your theory. The item on stranger theories links to it. I think I will let rootless know cus maybe he wants to make a post about it. Let me know what you think. I can make suggested edits.

searchinGirl wrote:Ok I posted a page with links to your theory. The item on stranger theories links to it. I think I will let rootless know cus maybe he wants to make a post about it. Let me know what you think. I can make suggested edits.

so you're on reddit jonbenet?

you can tell rootlesswriter i saw his posts on reddit thanks for the compliment, you are strong in the Forensics and very wise.  May the Forensics be with you.

rootlesswriter identifies by name who he thinks OCCK is, he gave me persmission to talk about him, and i gave him permission to talk about my occk-jonbenet theory on reddit, but um i'm not sure about giving the actual name of his suspect cause i don't want to be sued. he told me he's dead, but i said yeah his family might not take kindly to their family member being OCCK and also killing jonbenet. he'll tell you if you ask, on reddit.

i just clicked and thanks for everything. it's what i want.


now for newer edition

10 OCCK

   Oakland County Child Killer

11 ViCLAS (Violent Crime Linkage System )
    Mr. Cruel

after you set it up i'll write up text on Violent Crime Linkage System my mr cruel theory and links to my blog thanks

I'm on JonBenetRamsey. it looks like I'm a moderator but really I'm a Librarian. The Encyclopedia was made wiki.

I really appreciate the content. I hope you will help me with more content. There is a lot of history of the JonBenet case within the encyclopedia and I want to help MzMarple continue smooth language and organization.

I see the case from three time perspectives and at no time have the branches of law enforcement had the Leadership to Unify their approach to solving this crime. Until maybe recently.

But this crime aged with crime solving. And It has every element of intrigue and mystery there is. So, if you can help me with your knowledge of forensic science, I would really appreciate it.

searchinGirl wrote:I'm on JonBenetRamsey. it looks like I'm a moderator but really I'm a Librarian. The Encyclopedia was made wiki.

I really appreciate the content. I hope you will help me with more content. There is a lot of history of the JonBenet case within the encyclopedia and I want to help MzMarple continue smooth language and organization.

I see the case from three time perspectives and at no time have the branches of law enforcement had the Leadership to Unify their approach to solving this crime. Until maybe recently.

But this crime aged with crime solving. And It has every element of intrigue and mystery there is. So, if you can help me with your knowledge of forensic science, I would really appreciate it.

ok, sounds fine,

are you ready to add another entry?

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682510/Stranger%20Intruder%20Theories

11 ViCLAS (Violent Crime Linkage System )
Mr. Cruel via behavioral case linkage analysis

Not quite yet. you have to write the intro paragraph like you did for OCCK. But I'm pressed for time with business. I'm drafting for my husband and our business. He's the boss.

When you put your links together it would help if you put them in chronological order. Notice how I did it in the first one?

searchinGirl wrote:Not quite yet. you have to write the intro paragraph like you did for OCCK. But I'm pressed for time with business. I'm drafting for my husband and our business. He's the boss.

When you put your links together it would help if you put them in chronological order. Notice how I did it in the first one?

ok, but when can u find the time to do it and i'll write an intro paragraph and then provide links.

will do

searchinGirl wrote:will do

is miss marple ok with changes u made?

I don’t know. I haven’t heard anything. She was busy with a project and weighs in every once in awhile. I’m wondering if anyone will complain. Rootless rootless might say something about it. It is on topic for his OP

when you're ready i'll post mr cruel