reading the bible genesis of the Torah as a kid of the 80s

Thu Sep 13, 2018

when i was a kid i made a decision to read the bible cover to cover, starting with the first book of the bible genesis. and even there i found it highly confusing.

i found it confusing that god rejected cain's grain and vegetable offering for abel's animal burnt offering. and noah cursing ham lowest of his brothers. which i was told is the origin of black people.

i was whipsawed from one wtf to another.

but this one

this happened god destroyed sodom and gomorrah for the sin of homosexuality

And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father.

[Genesis 19:31-36]


if all scripture is supposed to point to the salvation of jesus christ by believing in his name,

what exactly is the point of this story?

so lots daughters got their dad drunk, then had sex with him and both bore children through their father via incest.
christian family values?

since the author of the bible is supposed to be god, couldn't he come up with something nicer to say?

paul in galatians iirc said anything that keeps you away from jesus christ is to be cursed, but um, when i actually read the old testament, i am filled and struck dumb with its weird creepy material.

there was no internet in those days, so i'm reading the bible, actually reading it, and thinking wtf?

but christians i knew seem to be all okay with it, and some were what i call apologists and will spend an infinite amount of time debating you on this.

the bible is god's word period.

many years later with the internet i read atheist literature and atheists like marshall brain who think the same way i do, that the bible contains so much useless wtf material. but i didn't have that growing up.

i do think in some ways christians, and even jews, engage in some variation of gas lighting.

christians similar to this



are telling me to read the bible, it will grow you in christ our lord and savior. here i am reading this

The Sons of Noah

18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) 19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the whole earth.

20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded[a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.

24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,

“Cursed be Canaan!
   The lowest of slaves
   will he be to his brothers.”

26 He also said,

“Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem!
   May Canaan be the slave of Shem.
27
May God extend Japheth’s[b] territory;
   may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
   and may Canaan be the slave of Japheth.”

28 After the flood Noah lived 350 years. 29 Noah lived a total of 950 years, and then he died.
Genesis 9:18-10:32

350 years sounds really old, can people live that long?

i of course was told in those days with god around people could live to be hundreds of years old

genesis is also the first book o the first 5 books of moses, of the torah, which jews say is the actual words god told moses on sinai which christians also believe.

in my city were jews



is me or are jews severely challenged in the looks department?

jew reading torah which includes genesis




they presumably are reading the original hebrew

and what they are reading in english

And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father.

[Genesis 19:31-36]

The Sons of Noah

18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) 19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the whole earth.

20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded[a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.

24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,

“Cursed be Canaan!
   The lowest of slaves
   will he be to his brothers.”

26 He also said,

“Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem!
   May Canaan be the slave of Shem.
27
May God extend Japheth’s[b] territory;
   may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
   and may Canaan be the slave of Japheth.”

28 After the flood Noah lived 350 years. 29 Noah lived a total of 950 years, and then he died.
Genesis 9:18-10:32

i'm thinking



this is madness!

atheist marshall brain spells it out

You keep opening the book to random pages, and nearly everything you find is utter nonsense. Either it is meaningless, completely irrelevant, disgusting or downright wrong.

Ask yourself this simple question: Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? Why doesn't a book written by an omniscient being leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement? If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight? Wouldn't you expect the author to tell us things that scientists have not been able to discover yet?

Yet, when we open the Bible and actually read it, we find it is nothing like that at all. Instead of leaving us in awe, it leaves us dumbfounded by all of the nonsense and backwardness that it contains. If you would look at the Bible fresh, and read what it actually says, you find that the Bible is ridiculous. The examples shown above barely scratch the surface of the Bible's numerous problems. If we are honest with ourselves, it is obvious that an "all-knowing" God had absolutely nothing to do with this book.

The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men. A book that advocates senseless murder, slavery and the oppression of women has no place in our society today. It is time for us to recognize this simple fact.

But what if you need still more proof? If so, then here is a question: Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? Why doesn't a book written by God leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement? If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight?

Instead, opening the Bible inevitably creates a feeling of dumbfoundment. Have you ever noticed that? Instead of brilliance, much of the Bible contains nonsense. The topics of the previous several chapters, where we discussed the Bible's advocacy of slavery and animal sacrifice, the Bible's misogyny and so on, are excellent examples. But they are just the tip of the iceberg. You can open the Bible to almost any page and find nonsense instead of wisdom. Here are several examples:

emily the jew for jesus teen girl who had a bar mitzvah at a reform jew synagogue came to believe that the jewish scriptures point to jesus christ as the jewish messiah.

real jews of course point out that the scriptures say nothing of jesus

who is right, emily the jew for jesus or real jews?

here is jewish scripture


i open up the holy bible 1 Samuel 18  New International Version

Saul’s Growing Fear of David

1After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. 2From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return home to his family. 3And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. 4Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt.

5Whatever mission Saul sent him on, David was so successful that Saul gave him a high rank in the army. This pleased all the troops, and Saul’s officers as well.

6When the men were returning home after David had killed the Philistine, the women came out from all the towns of Israel to meet King Saul with singing and dancing, with joyful songs and with timbrels and lyres. 7As they danced, they sang:

“Saul has slain his thousands,

and David his tens of thousands.”

8Saul was very angry; this refrain displeased him greatly. “They have credited David with tens of thousands,” he thought, “but me with only thousands. What more can he get but the kingdom?” 9And from that time on Saul kept a close eye on David.

10The next day an evila spirit from God came forcefully on Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the lyre, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand 11and he hurled it, saying to himself, “I’ll pin David to the wall.” But David eluded him twice.

12Saul was afraid of David, because the Lord was with David but had departed from Saul. 13So he sent David away from him and gave him command over a thousand men, and David led the troops in their campaigns. 14In everything he did he had great success, because the Lord was with him. 15When Saul saw how successful he was, he was afraid of him. 16But all Israel and Judah loved David, because he led them in their campaigns.

17Saul said to David, “Here is my older daughter Merab. I will give her to you in marriage; only serve me bravely and fight the battles of the Lord.” For Saul said to himself, “I will not raise a hand against him. Let the Philistines do that!”

18But David said to Saul, “Who am I, and what is my family or my clan in Israel, that I should become the king’s son-in-law?” 19Sob when the time came for Merab, Saul’s daughter, to be given to David, she was given in marriage to Adriel of Meholah.

20Now Saul’s daughter Michal was in love with David, and when they told Saul about it, he was pleased. 21“I will give her to him,” he thought, “so that she may be a snare to him and so that the hand of the Philistines may be against him.” So Saul said to David, “Now you have a second opportunity to become my son-in-law.”

22Then Saul ordered his attendants: “Speak to David privately and say, ‘Look, the king likes you, and his attendants all love you; now become his son-in-law.’ ”

23They repeated these words to David. But David said, “Do you think it is a small matter to become the king’s son-in-law? I’m only a poor man and little known.”

24When Saul’s servants told him what David had said, 25Saul replied, “Say to David, ‘The king wants no other price for the bride than a hundred Philistine foreskins, to take revenge on his enemies.’ ” Saul’s plan was to have David fall by the hands of the Philistines.

26When the attendants told David these things, he was pleased to become the king’s son-in-law. So before the allotted time elapsed, 27David took his men with him and went out and killed two hundred Philistines and brought back their foreskins. They counted out the full number to the king so that David might become the king’s son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal in marriage.

28When Saul realized that the Lord was with David and that his daughter Michal loved David, 29Saul became still more afraid of him, and he remained his enemy the rest of his days.

30The Philistine commanders continued to go out to battle, and as often as they did, David met with more success than the rest of Saul’s officers, and his name became well known.

this is a story of david collecting 200 foreskins

again why should i care if david managed to cut off the penis foreskins of 200 philistines?

i don't see anything here about jesus christ.

jews 1, emliy jew for jesus and christians 0

emily was the only jew for jesus i knew in that time and place, now i guess there are more.

this is the material contained in the torah scrolls



i grew up christian and not a jew, though jews also claim to have read it.

and so when i hear christians claim context, or taking things out of context, or have you read the bible cover to cover,

i get a sinking feelings christians either have not read it, or simply just does not register what they are actually reading, and instead so brain washed to believe in jesus.

that somehow this

And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father.

is a foreshadowing of christ, that this spoke or points to a future messiah in jesus christ

i now think that christian brain washing sheep into thinking what they want to think and only occasionally use the bible.

thanks to the internet i have learned that there are exchristian and exjew atheists who see the bible the same way i do, as pure nonsense.


at the time reading it i begin to think perhaps the god of the jews is not the god of jesus christ. that the bible talks about 2 different gods, one is the genocidal god of the jews, the other is the god of love as revealed by jesus christ. 20 years into the future i learned of a fellow named marcion and my ideas actually are the same sort of thing.

if i were to invent a new religion i'd ditch the old testament