an example of how applying science leads to intruder theory The Unsolved Murder of JonBenet Ramsey

Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:49 am


over at websleuth, i learned of a poster named cynic who called Jameson an IDI nutjob. he told me Jameson was an intruder theory nutjob. it turns out he thinks all IDI are nutjobs. he recommended i read Delmar England on forumsforjustice as an example of RDI finiest mind, which shows RDI is correct.

here is an "example" of of how applying science leads to intruder theory


this is JonBenet Ramsey shirt she was wearing on the night she was murdered




touch DNA testing




found Jonbenet's DNA profile, but a mixed profile with unknown male DNA. they separated the DNA profiles and found an unknown male DNA profile.


how should this be evaluated using science?

the scientific principle for crime scene reconstruction is locard's exchange principle.

well there are many possible explanations of this DNA profile from secondary transfer unrelated to the crime, to an intruder making forceful violent and lethal contact with the victim.

first this unknown DNA should be entered into CODIS. if no match, then look at suspects and compare their DNA profiles to the unknown DNA profile found on her shirt, and interview them and get a statement, if they had any prior contacts with the victim.

this is both detective work, meeting actual people, and scientific work.

according to cynic, this is an IDI nutjob thinking.

this is how RDI approach it.




trasha pictured below is an example of an anti-science denialist




this is what she claims

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?76520-Patsy-Ramsey/page92

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

As owner, I do my best to stay out of actual discussions about a crime.

The JBR case is the one expection.

Websleuths is a leader in true crime information as well as discussion. People come here to get information. It is imperative we deal with the facts. Not fantasy.

All I ask for are facts and a logical connecting of the dots. Logic and facts.

When I get time I will be going through the forum to make sure the JonBenet Ramsey forum is being held up to the high standards just like all our other forums on Websleuths.

The days of allowing anyone to post anything because it's part of their "theory" are gone. Facts and logic. Very simple.

this is her qualifications

Host Tricia Griffith is a veteran radio disc jockey and owner of Websleuths.com and owner of Forums for Justice.org.

in other words she has ZERO qualifications in forensic science. she has no training in forensic fiber, trace evidence, DNA yet she claims

tricia griffith wrote:
Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

similarly with Delmar England

delmar england wrote:
Letter to Boulder Colorado District Attorney, Mary Keenan

The crime scene consisted of an obviously bogus multi-page "ransom note" utilizing local materials. JonBenet's body was left in the basement of the Ramsey home with crude trappings falling woefully short of presenting a convincing kidnap\murder scene as it was intended to do. Even without pointing out more of a very long list of corroborating facts, the bogus note and inept staging is more than sufficient to isolate the perpetrators to the Ramsey household. Only a few minutes in examining and evaluating the evidence is required to reach this conclusion. It is impossible to reach any other conclusion on the facts. There was and is no evidentiary reason to look anywhere else. The only mystery to be solved was and is which Ramsey did what in relation to JonBenet's death.

Although it is not possible to reach any other conclusion from the evidence, it is possible to ignore the evidence and mentally invent "evidence" to take the place of truth and keep it hidden. Prompted by preconceived notions set in a context of money and political influence in conjunction with investigative cowardice and incompetence, this is precisely what has been going on for over six years.

delmar wrote:
Handwriting? Patsy has not been ruled out by several examiners. By my own analysis, not of the writing, but of the mind match between the note and Patsy is clear. This is explained in my analysis of the "ransom note." So far, neither you nor anyone else has quoted and challenged it. So, to say the handwriting does not match the Ramseys, thus all Ramseys are excluded as author, is just another arbitrary declaration without substance. Note the exclusion of Ramseys necessarily depends on the intruder idea of no factual substance.

DNA? So, it does not match the family. So what? Who does it match? Unknown? If unknown, how can it be known to connect to the crime and be "evidence?" If the source of this DNA were known, then factually connected to the crime scene, then it is evidence. Absence this, it is just more speculation that caters to intruder mental creation.

Does the DNA have to be connected to the crime? Could it not be from a benign source totally removed from the crime scene? Again, the alleged evidence evidences nothing except itself with no known connection to the crime. No outsider as perpetrator is required to explain the DNA since no connection is known as crime related.

The same is true for boot print, hairs, fibers, etc.. A close look into anyone's house would most likely turn up all sorts of things whose source were unknown whether there is a crime or not. To call something whose source and cause is unknown as evidence is to say it causal related while simultaneously saying cause is unknown, thus relationship unknown; more "negative evidence." If my recollection of high school Latin is correct, this could be called "ignotium per ignotius", the unknown by the more unknown.

This "Ramsey defense" "thinking" is a direct and absurd contradiction that is without limit. With this kind of "investigative latitude", I dare say that one could "prove" anything; or at least, convince the deluded self that he or she has done so. "negative evidence?" Surely, thou jest. I repeat: All known evidence is local.

delmar england wrote:
For every "could be", there is a "could be not", therefore, inconclusive until cause is known. Right? No thing is evidence until evidentiary cause is known. Right? Are we in agreement so far? If not, please point out what you think is my error in thinking, and why you think it is error.

A shoe print is found in the basement whose cause is unknown. It "could be" evidence of an intruder. "Could be not" is forgotten and "evidence" of an intruder is declared to be fact. There is a palm print with cause unknown; a rope with source unknown that "could be" something brought in by an intruder; an unidentified fiber, a baseball bat that "could have" been used by the intruder; a bit of dirt or leaves at a window well which "could have" been disturbed by an intruder. The list goes on and on and on.

This massive "evidence" stated to be more consistent with a theory of intruder than Ramsey guilt is hot air, nothing more than a string of unknowns verbally laced together on "could be", simultaneously divorced from the known, and declared to be much evidence of an intruder. Ridiculous to the max. No wonder no one will step forward and answer questions about alleged evidence of an alleged intruder. Its indefensible.

The beauty of truth is that it is consistent. Every fact is a complement of and blends with every other fact without contradiction. The presence of a contradiction is also the presence of error. Are we in agreement up to this point?

Forteanforever 3 points 3 days ago*

The DNA is not evidence that someone was in the house. It is evidence that there was DNA on the clothes, period. There are common ways for DNA to be transfered to clothes during manufacture and packaging. If that same DNA appeared elsewhere in the house you would be onto something. As it is, without a match and evidence that the person whose DNA it is was in the house it isn't much.

A court-ordered psychiatric evaluation (if that's what you meant) is not the same as accessing a psychiatric record which may contain information about prior behavior. Behavior trumps a psychiatric evaluation every time. Edmund Kemper had the head of one of his victims in his car trunk while he was sitting in his psychiatrist's office and the psychiatrist was writing a glowing evaluation about how much Kemper had improved.

You're claiming that an event you didn't witness was an accident. You couldn't possibly know that.

It has become obvious that every time you find yourself at a disadvantage in this discussion you insult me. This causes me to laugh.

The sounds of people getting ready to travel are very unlikely to mimic the sounds of parents who have just discovered a child missing.

One doesn't have to be an expert in body language (although I do have some knowledge in that area) to recognize someone mimicking hitting their sister over the head. Incidentally, the fact that he mimicked the thing I think he likely did rather than the action that actually killed her suggests that she was garrotted by someone else.

One doesn't have to be a behavioral analyst (although I do have some knowledge in that area) to recognize that something is decidedly "off" about the behavior of a person. The ability to recognize it is one of things that keeps us alive. It's part of pattern recognition.

Your devotion to Burke is more than a little disturbing.

Zero Objectivity In The JonBenet Ramsey Homicide Case - Why You Need To Revisit Your Theories

When you don't know the difference between an idea, a speculation, a theory and evidence - you'll run into trouble trying to get to know a case.



Excluding the ninja pedo fetish trolls who have arrived in full regalia to degrade both these subs with their twisted pedo fan fic fantasies, I'd assume the rest of us who bother to even remain subscribed still would like to discuss the case at length and hash out theories and whatnot. I would too but after an extended break to come back and see some of these ludicrous IDI posts that are no such thing - I see a serious discussion may now be too much to ask for.



This is a fleshed out write up on some things that need to be addressed. It's not the tldr version. If you want that, oh well.



WHAT WE KNOW

There are two primary camps: RDI and IDI. Ramsey(s) Did It and Intruder Did It. In the RDI camp, we have three sub camps: Patsy Did It (all), John Did It (all), and Burke Did It (R/J cover up). We all have the basis elements down and we all know there are plenty of questions that will never, ever be answered so the most we can do is try the most sensical, intuitive, logical, reasonable, and rational speculation and see if it adds up.



When it comes to the IDI camp, at this place 20 years later, it's pretty clear that IDI is a dinosaur to everyone who is familiar with the case. We get it now, there's plenty of evidence of RDI - but which R remains up for grabs. The IDI debate ended years ago with new information, insight, and revelations. It's only a "thing" for those who for whatever reasons never followed this case, never paid much attention, just didn't delve into it beyond the age old headlines and going ideas that those who have been more involved have known for awhile are refuted, discarded, irrelevant, etc.



Then there's the other faction of IDIer that are not seriously IDIers. They are trolls or Ramsey shills or mentally disturbed sorts, and of course, the twisted Karr style fetishists who want a canvas to roll out their disturbing fetish nonsense and attach it to this case. This camp doesn't actually care about this case, the facts or the evidence, or what happened to JonBenet. Their sole agenda is to degrade the discussion. They will neither respect nor regard the following points and will likely argue them in spite of reality. By their fruits they shall be known.

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/95s2u1


are these RDI claims correct?


the shirt in question came from Miranda Cantu


this was an intruder home invasion case, a burglarly. no semen, but touch DNA was recovered. it was an actual home invading home intruder case.


the touch DNA found on her orange shirt was matched via suspect leaving behind a cigarette to






so compare how touch DNA leads to successful identification of Miranda Cantu killer in this case, versus how what RDI claim in JBR's case.

is the touch DNA in JBR case stronger or weaker than in Miranada Cantu's case?

is find multiple DNA profiles consistent with one another on separate articles stronger or weaker DNA evidence than 1 profile found on 1 shirt in Miranada Cantu's case?