bible verses and my experience with Christians and atheists Marshall Brain of Godisimaginary

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bible verses and my experience with Christians and atheists Marshall Brain of Godisimaginary

Post by redpill on Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:20 pm

Wed Aug 01, 2018

it's not sunday but listverse has published this today

10 Dark And Ungodly Christian Beliefs
Joshua Sigafus August 1, 2018
http://listverse.com/2018/08/01/10-dark-and-ungodly-christian-beliefs/

trip down memory lane in the 70s and 80s i read the bible, there was no internet as we have it today. no web browsers. most pc's sold like the tandy 1000 and commodore 64 and apple 2c didn't have internet connections.

so i read the bible.

i was told the bible was written by god, and it is 100% true and inerrant and the source of true wisdom

Veronica Arntz says

What is wisdom? It’s meaning is often elusive to us, for it is mysterious and seems beyond us.

In the last analysis, our desire for wisdom can transform the way that we live in Christ, for pursuing the noblest end in our studies is ultimately the pursuit of the Holy Trinity. Wisdom not only informs our intellect, but it also assists our will in acting prudently and choosing moral actions. Thus, our pursuit of wisdom will lead us to a deeper understanding of God, but we must also have the humility to ask for the gift of wisdom, for God is the one who bestows on us knowledge of himself. We should implore the Holy Spirit for the gift of wisdom, so that we might come to a deeper knowledge of God, ourselves, and the virtues to live a holy life in him.
http://truthandcharityforum.org/wisdom-the-fashioner-of-all-things/

i was told similar things about the bible. but um i actually opened the bible and started reading it


reading the bible i found passages like this

He that striketh his bondman or bondwoman with a rod, and they die under his hands, shall be guilty of the crime.

But if the party remain alive a day or two, he shall not be subject to the punishment, because it is his money.—Exodus 21:20–21[3]

But if what he charged her with be true, and virginity be not found in the damsel:

They shall cast her out of the doors of her father’s house, and the men of the city shall stone her to death, and she shall die: because she hath done a wicked thing in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: and thou shalt take away the evil out of the midst of thee.—Deuteronomy 22:20–21[4]

if a man have espoused a damsel that is a virgin, and some one find her in the city, and lie with her,

Thou shalt bring them both out to the gate of that city, and they shall be stoned: the damsel, because she cried not out, being in the city: the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife. And thou shalt take away the evil from the midst of thee.—Deuteronomy 22:23–24[5]

f a man find a damsel that is a virgin, who is not espoused, and taking her, lie with her, and the matter come to judgment:

He that lay with her shall give to the father of the maid fifty sides of silver, and shall have her to wife, because he hath humbled her: he may not put her away all the days of his life.—Deuteronomy 22:28–29[6]

An eunuch, whose testicles are broken or cut away, or yard cut off, shall not enter into the church of the Lord.—Deuteronomy 23:1[7]

If any man commit adultery with the wife of another, and defile his neighbour’s wife, let them be put to death, both the adulterer and the adulteress.—Leviticus 20:10[8]

If thy brother the son of thy mother, or thy son, or daughter, or thy wife that is in thy bosom, or thy friend, whom thou lovest as thy own soul, would persuade thee secretly, saying: Let us go, and serve strange gods, which thou knowest not, nor thy fathers,

Of all the nations round about, that are near or afar off, from one end of the earth to the other,

Consent not to him, hear him not, neither let thy eye spare him to pity and conceal him,

But thou shalt presently put him to death. It Let thy hand be first upon him, and afterwards the hands of all the people.

With stones shall he be stoned to death: because he would have withdrawn thee from the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage:—Deuteronomy 13:6–10[9]

Thus saith the Lord of hosts: I have reckoned up all that Amalec hath done to Israel: I how he opposed them in the way when they came up out of Egypt.

Now therefore go, and smite Amalec, and utterly destroy all that he hath: spare him not, nor covet any thing that is his: but slay both man and woman, child and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.—1 Samuel 15:2–3

If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.—Leviticus 20:13[11]

these passages are all from the old testament which is also the sacred book of the jews, and many are from the Torah.

yet this article only mentions Christians.

i've noticed that atheists often debunk christians on the basis of the old testament without ever mentioning it shares it with the Jews

passages like this caused me to question and doubt that the bible was inspired by a loving all wise god.

there was no internet commonly available on an apple 2e in those days

but i did meet christians and when i asked about this i got responses similar to this in the 80s that is now being stated
Wed Aug 01, 2018

these are all comments from that listverse article

Ryan Elliott • a minute ago

What a crappy list. Whoever wrote this seems to have done as little research as possible. Pathetic


James Lowder • 23 minutes ago

At the times that were mentioned they were not Christians. This article talks about Old Testament times not New Testament times. There were no Christians until Jesus Christ was born and preached a new testament to the world. So your attempt to disparage Christians is basically false.

Mike • 26 minutes ago

(9)Beating/disciplining slaves. Exodus 21:20 documents that under certain circumstances, beating/disciplining could be morally acceptable as punishment. This passage, however, provided rights that did not exist in other pagan cultures for the protection of the slave. The more closely the passage is scrutinized, the more it manifests the idea that God was protecting the slave.This law’s natural sense is that the murderous master was to be executed by the legal community on behalf of the slave, who had no family to avenge him ....

HM8432 • 37 minutes ago

Jewish beliefs maybe, but not Christian. Almost all these lazy cherry-picked examples are from the Old Testament--Mosaic Law--which was negated when Christ died from the cross; almost every example listed is no longer practiced by mainstream Christians in the present-day. The author of this list deems God's word "dark and ungodly"...by PC "worldly" standards! Interesting. Waiting with baited-breath for Joshua to come-up with a similar list about Muslims and their current, still-practiced beliefs taken from the Koran; it'd be MUCH worse. Some Christians won't cater a gay wedding, but Muslims really will behead you or throw one off a buildin

Sardondi • an hour ago

It never fails to amuse when pagans presume to tell Christians what they believe and what the Bible really means.


USMC71 • an hour ago

Did the author even bother to consult authors who deal with passages like this - e.g., Book of Bible Difficulties by Gleason Archer (which has only been around a few decades, at least? Another good one is by Norm Geisler.
Each one of these verses have been taken out of texts thousands of years old from the Middle East culture and placed square into a 21st century Western culture, and then you wonder why God didn't just start with contemporary America.
That is chronological snobbery and demonstrates that you are merely interested in sawing off the limb you sit on. You would not have a Western Culture or America with out the Bible in the first place.

BigRedJim • an hour ago

Amazing, all Old Testament commands. Just saying and pointing it out. Christianity had its beginning on the day of Pentecost, 50 days after the Passover celebration and the Resurrection of Jesus. In calling these commands ungodly I guess that you are calling God ungodly, better be careful.

Kathleen • 2 hours ago

This article is laughable. It shows a complete lack of knowledge regarding the Bible.

Monte Noffsinger • 2 hours ago

Yes God told the Hebrews to attack and kill certain tribes down the last child and animal. If you knew anything about the bible you would know they were killing tribes of Nephilim

Just read Gen 6:1-2 and realize those sons of God were angels and the mated with humans. The resulting children of those matins were Nephilim

These God attacked and guess what. Jesus said the these things would take place in our time Matt 24:27

So all you people speaking out against God and twisting what actually happened are going to live through it yourselves.

Homosexuality is outright satanic and leads to pedophilia and bestiality. You are the paving stones

Monte Noffsinger Jonathan999 • an hour ago

Homosexuality is the paving stone to pedophilia and to try and deny that is just idiotic. The high court of Finland just said it is ok for a 10 year old girl to give sexual consent

What started this process of acceptance? Homosexuality. This is what they are pushing for. If I were you I would rethink what you believe and fast.

Now is the time to believe (1 Cor 15:1-4 & Eph 2:8-9) or you will miss the rapture of the church and face the wrath of God (John 3:36)

Eric • 2 hours ago

It is painfully obvious this person who wrote this article didn't read the whole thing or if they didn't they just didn't get it. What a waste of my time to have read this.

Doks Omojola • 3 hours ago

This article appears to be a classic case of misinformation.

ben3 • 3 hours ago

Well listverse is at it again. Taking verses, mostly out of context, and trying to misuse them.

Lee Adams • 3 hours ago

This demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of context. Every line of the Old Testament must be read through the lens of Christ, and the text must be read as a broad narrative, not as a cherry-picked line by line collection of sayings and rules. This list is a really juvenile, fundamentalist reading of Scripture.

James C. Morris • 4 hours ago

It is blatantly false to pretend that any of these except the first one are "Christian" beliefs. ALL the rest are from the law of Moses, which was explicitly said to b=have been done away with in the Christian New testament.

FoodPolice • 4 hours ago

What a sham of an article... That was Jewish law not Christian law...
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Levi W. • 4 hours ago

That is not a Christian list. Most of it comes from the Old Testament or the Hebrew Bible. The standard and criterion for any Christian belief is Jesus Christ and nowhere did Jesus say any of the things you mentioned. The central teachings of Jesus include being nonjudgmental, loving one's neighbor as oneself, and forgiving one another. When the teachings of the Old Testament and Paul contradict the teachings of Jesus, Christians go with what Jesus taught.

Avatar
Frank coronado • 4 hours ago

The problem with lists such as these is that the writer has target lock. He, already, has a prejudicial negative opinion of Christianity and uses the list to express his opinion while pretending to be neutral and objective.

Anon1 • 6 hours ago

This is all from the OT it looks like. The OT is about the people's covenant unto God. The NT is about God's covenant unto the people which void most of if not all the laws in the OT when Christ died on the cross to redeem mankind according to the bible. Many of these laws and ways were guidelines or instructions for those particular times.

Q: who makes the rules, man or god?

A: according to the bible, god indeed does make the rules, but since god loves man so much over all his creations he them free will. Over time, god becomes displeased with man because of their wickedness. We see many times in the OT of God personally intervening in our world to save, punish etc.. the bible also describes a cycle of sin that mankind enters repeatedly. His chosen people, the jews, were displeased with God over time with his restrictive and rigid laws, so God allowed them to be ruled by other men themselves.

Is this list not redundant? How many times can you make the same list with a different title?

so i read those passages in the bible and others like it, and then i listend to christians make claims similar to what is above. a popular one is that i'm misintepreting the bible, taking bible verses out of context, or direct me to read norman geisler walter martin archer gleaser etc. hard core fundamenatlist nutjobs

in the second century a christianed named marcion created a bible that removed the entire old testament as not being the word of god. good move on his part.

thanks to the miracle of the internet i have access to atheist thoughts

one is marshall brain of whygoddoesn'thealamputees and godisimaginary



here's his message
marshall brain wrote:
Understanding the Bible


In this article, I would like to help you see the Bible from a fresh perspective. Let's try to look at the Bible as though you have never seen it before.

Imagine that we are good friends. One day we are talking:

Me: Wow, you will not believe this new book I've been reading!

You: What's it about?

Me: It is a manual for living a better life. It is also a guide to creating a better society for ourselves and our children. It has changed my life!

You: That sounds like an important book. Who wrote it?

Me: The author is supposed to be the smartest person in the universe.

You: That's amazing -- if the author is the smartest person in the universe, the book must be absolutely brilliant. I can't wait to see it. Do you have a copy with you?

Me: Absolutely! I carry it with me everywhere I go! Here, have a look for yourself...

You open the book to a random page, and you find this:

Any of the people of Israel, or of the aliens who reside in Israel, who give any of their offspring to Molech shall be put to death; the people of the land shall stone them to death. I myself will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people, because they have given of their offspring to Molech, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. And if the people of the land should ever close their eyes to them, when they give of their offspring to Molech, and do not put them to death, I myself will set my face against them and against their family, and will cut them off from among their people, them and all who follow them in prostituting themselves to Molech.

If any turn to mediums and wizards, prostituting themselves to them, I will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.

If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his father�s wife has uncovered his father�s nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20]

You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment.

You: I thought you said that this is written by the most intelligent person in the universe. If we are going to follow what this author says, we have to kill half the people in America. We are supposed to kill everyone who has cursed his father or mother, everyone who has committed adultery, and every homosexual.

Me: Well, that's in the old testament, you see. The book is really two books, and the "old" part of the book doesn't really apply.

You: Are you saying that the smartest person in the universe once wanted us to kill every adulterer and homosexual, but then changed his mind? That somehow makes it better? If the "old part" no longer applies, then why did you hand it to me when I asked to see the book?

Me: Well, parts of it do apply.

You: Didn't you just tell me that it doesn't apply?

You open the book to another random page and you find this:

When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master�s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, �I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person�, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.

Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee. But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution.

Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death.

Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death. Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.

When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery.

When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner�s property. [Exodus, chapter 21]

Again, you are dumfounded. Here the author of the book is advocating slavery, the branding of slaves, and the wholesale beating of slaves. You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment.

You: You have to be kidding me. Here the "smartest person in the universe" is telling us that slavery is OK and that we are free to beat our slaves.

You open the book to another random page and you find this:

I desire, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument; also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. [1 Timothy, chapter 2]

You are nearly speechless. But you manage to find your voice.

You: Is this some kind of joke? "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man." That is totally sexist! In America, there are millions of female teachers and we have women throughout our corporate and govenment hierarchies. No intelligent person believes that women should be silenced.

As you page through the book further you find that it is totally sexist from beginning to end.

You keep opening the book to random pages, and nearly everything you find is utter nonsense. Either it is meaningless, completely irrelevant, disgusting or downright wrong.

ref http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/bible.htm

i agree with everything marshall brain says, it accords with my own understanding of what the bible actually says.

there was no internet for me growing up but now there is and i have access to atheist critiques of the bible, and i agree with it.

i read the bible and i found it deeply disturbing but the christians i knew said there's something wrong with me i have the problem i'm taking verses out of context, or i'm not seeing the bigger picture of christ's redemptive sacrifice on the cross.

i have the opportunity to compare what atheist marshall brain says about the bible, with what christians say about the bible, (and jews) and read the bible for myself. there were no such resources and no books in my local library that discussed some of the rather disturbing things i found reading the bible, everything from god rejecting cain's plant based sacrifice to noah cursing shem to jacob using deception and lies to get blessings from isaac from older brother esau. every passage in even genesis was like wtf

verdict atheists are right.

if another religion say buddism or thor or odin or any other deity were to create a holy book with those kind of passages, christians would point to those teachings and reject it as satanic. christians have told me buddhism is a false religion, islam is a false religion, catholicism and jehovah witness and mormons are all false religions. but when i read the bible, it is in itself a false religion.

i don't see the bible as anything other than outdated superstitious and anti-science nonsense.

the only thing i have with marshall brain is

this is Veronica Arntz

Therefore, the gift of wisdom from the Holy Spirit assists the wisdom acquired through reason. In receiving the supernatural gift of wisdom, given from God who is Truth, man is spiritually enlightened in his pursuit of wisdom. As such, the gift of wisdom causes man to desire more deeply the knowledge of God and to pursue him more closely as the ultimate end of the universe

In the last analysis, our desire for wisdom can transform the way that we live in Christ, for pursuing the noblest end in our studies is ultimately the pursuit of the Holy Trinity. Wisdom not only informs our intellect, but it also assists our will in acting prudently and choosing moral actions. Thus, our pursuit of wisdom will lead us to a deeper understanding of God, but we must also have the humility to ask for the gift of wisdom, for God is the one who bestows on us knowledge of himself. We should implore the Holy Spirit for the gift of wisdom, so that we might come to a deeper knowledge of God, ourselves, and the virtues to live a holy life in him.
http://truthandcharityforum.org/wisdom-the-fashioner-of-all-things/

i think for some religiousity is an orientation like homosexuality. some men by nature are gay and some people are inclined to religion, and not giving them religion would make them abnormal, just as not allowing men who are gay not to do gay things with gay men wouldn't make them happy either.

if Veronica Arntz type had been born and raised an atheist, what would she be like ?

Veronica Arntz is pursing her dream of getting a theology degree, in catholicism.

i don't have any interest in starting a religion and praying to a deity i don't believe exists, but if i were to create a religion for Veronica Arntz types, i'd eliminate the old testament, re-write the new testament along the lines of marcion and thomas jefferson, and include only the very best spiritual writings of the greatest most gifted mystics. and call that the word of god, in a neoplatonist and taoist sense of the term

so a young Veronica Arntz wouldn't be reading the old testament in my religion, but would be reading meister echkart, simone weil, thomas merton, sufi poets rumi and khalil gibran, excepts of emmanuel swedenborg, zen taoism buddhism gnostic gospels, gospel of thomas, and i would call this the inerrant infallible inspired word of god, god as described by plotinus and taoism etc. for those who need religion or have a religious orientation.

i've read excepts of all these writers and books like elaine pagel's the gnostic gospels and bart ehrman's books, but while i find it amazing insights and what not, i don't have any miracle powers or abilities. if my follower told me her son is dying of leukemia i don't have any miracle based ability to cure him. i don't think anyone does. not even jesus.


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