people magazine investigates Jonbenet Ramsey - notes comments

ive just watched

people magazine investigates jonbenet ramsey




this should not be confused with jonbenet documentaries from aetv cbs discovery ID lifetime nbc dateline, there are all separate documentaries

i'll offer notes then thoughts

starts - they use actors that are different from actors in all the other documentaries. lots of actors out there that look like r's

they introduce ron walker fbi agent and present on day of crime

starts with montage of jonbenet pageant videos, patsy saying god knows who you are lots of news reel of event

vickie bane reporter for people magazine
kate coyne executive director for people magazine

comments jonbenet is typical wealthy family, from early age jonbenet has talent for acting performing, singing dancing montage of her pageant videos

both talk about boulder, family life etc

introduce jess cagle executive director - comments they seem completely normal and talk about pageantry for children

morning dec 26, they narrate and show patsy walking down stairs when she noticed paper on stairs. the paper is ransom note and triggers events i've blogged elsewhere. at this time they narrate the events similar to what other documentaries and facts familiar, they call 911, they call friends to come over, police arrive, detectives arrive

since this was a possible kidnapping ron walker fbi was called

around 1pm john and fleet look in the basement john finds jonbenet screams and takes her lifeless body.

describes how she was - she had a garrote , her wrist was bound they found tape over her mouth
wrapped in blanket

detective picked her up from kitchen floor and put under xmas tree.

then boulder bpd sprang into action, started seizing evidence

crime scene investigators mostly focused on basement, show suitcase over open basement window

steven pitt psychologists/psychiatrist was introduced.

it was not initially treated as a crime scene.

scott robinson comments police response was deficient since it was day after xmas, understaffed.

cyril wecht forensic pathologist is introduced. note, cyril wecht is NOT werner spitz.
cyril wecht and werner spitz are two different forensic pathologists, both commenting on autopsy.

werner spitz = cbs burke is suing
cyril wecht this documentary sex games gone wrong theory

cyril wecht said they found undigested pineapple in the autopsy and he believes it means most likely she ate pineapple after she came home from whites, at night time, shortly before her murder.

autopsy reveals both ligature and skull fracture 8 inches long

ron walker confirms medical examiner that jonbenet had sexual trauma at the time of her death.
jonbenet had some sort of damage to the vaginal area at the time of death, by an unknown party.

ron walker also claims of sexual abuse that predates her death

cyril wecht expressly states he believes someone engaged in perverted sex game with jonbenet at some time prior to her death

kate coyne states the way jonbenet was strangled with a garrote suggests a level of expertise beyond an act of passion.

scott robinson whoever killed jonbenet ramsey had to be pretty sophisticated in the use of the garrotte

ron walker thinks the loop of cord around her wrist is staging since there are no marks on her wrists that suggest she was bound alive
duct tape after death no evidence she was moving

then discussion of media

ron walker believes there is evidence of chronic sexual abuse prior to her death and someone had sexual access to her, and believe obviously the family john and patsy

they show john ramsey denying this

narrator jonbenet was murdered to cover up a very dark sexual secret. john sexually abused jonbenet and killed her to silence her.

cyril wecht said this is a sex game gone awry.

ramsey pediatrician said there was never any evidence of sexual assault at any point prior to murder

ron walker said when he met patsy she had fingers over eyes but looking out, and ron thinks the whole thing was contrived on patsy's part.

ron walker said children are murdered every day, but this happened to a rich family and a child beauty pageant

they show ramsey lawyer saying no law saying ramseys have to talk to police.

patsy said jonbenet went straight to bed did not eat.
cyril wetch said jonbenet was never served pineapple in any homes jonbenet visited

so pineapple is important since it seems to contradict patsy's statement

comment on recording 911 might have burke asking what did you find?

they talk about burke

i agree 100% that they should immediately interview burke that day dec 26

ron walker comments that the jonbenet case is the only case they are aware of where a ransom note was found in the same home as a body

scott robinson seems incomprehensible someone will attempt to extract a ransom when the body is there in the same home

$118k= jr bonus suspicious inside knowledge?

ron walker calls the length of the ransom note the war and peace of ransom notes, the magna carta

ron walker warns r's not to call but what does r do? they call 911

sbtc = subic bay training base. there is a plaque in basement which has this it was in view of killer

ransom note is staging they staged the scene to look like a kidnapping

scott robinson claims patsy was not eliminated via handwriting

bpd did investigate other boulder residents. they interviewed over 600 people, over 60 experts

there was open window and suitcase under window.

bpd ask john if home had been secure, john admits he did not activate alarm

they talk about bill mcreyanlds santa claus theory. bill mcreynalds was named a suspect to jonbenet death and was investigated

they talk about how bill mcreyanalds promised jonbenet a special xmas gift, could this promise be the cause of her death?

vickie bane narrates the highly unusual story that exactly on christmas some 22 year prior, his 9 year old daughter and a friend were abducted and his daughter watch an unidentified indivdual sexually assault her friend. this has never been solved. dec 26, 1974

in 1976 mcreynalds wife wrote a play about a girl kidnapped raped and murdered in basement. she claims she was purging emotion.

dna did not match, he was too ill. eliminated as suspect

then talk about grand jury. talk about dna on 2 separate clothing.

patsy died from ovarian june 24, 2006

then discussion of john mark karr.

grand jury believed parents was invovled but not actually murder jonbenet, grand jury did vote to indict. child neglect resulting in death for indictment probable cause to prove criminal proof beyond reasonable doubt

this case far exceeds any other modern crime case in terms of theories involved

this case is game of clue

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thoughts

at this point it is clear that 99% of rdi claims you find on topix reddit websleuth ffj and other forums comes directly from simply restating the opinions of the above individuals with any critical thinking.

when you listen to rdi claims, they are simply repeating claims made elsewhere without any independent thinking on their part

ron walker said it, in effect, therefore it must be true.

dr leon kelly md forensic pathologists said he reviewed other pathologists report, the pediatrician report and autopsy. he said jonbenet had history of vaginitis due to uriniary tract issues like bed wedding and it is totally not medically justified to conclude based on the autopsy findings that jonbenet was sexually abused or any sexual games.

when aetv contacted the pediatricians, 2 admitted they did not know jonbenet had history of bedwetting and vaginities which they agree could explain the findings

jonbenet pediatrician also said jonbenet had zero evidence of sexual abuse.

this contradicts cyril wecht claims of sex games gone awry. cyril wecht never comments on the fact
that jobnenet pediatrician saw jonbenet regularly for urinary tract issues-irritation-infection, and that this can cause irritation to the vagina explaining the finding without any sexual abuse on the part of john. leon kelly does state this. so based on daubert cyril wecht claim must be rejected on scientific grounds.

leon kelly and cyril wecht agree jonbenet had vaginal trauma so she likely was sexually assaulted at time of death.

this contradict claim by henry lee and werner spitz on the cbs documentary that jonbenet was not sexually assaulted.

on the cbs documentary the female profiler asked about the dna and jonbenet being sexually assaulted. henry lee said jonbenet was not sexually assaulted and the blood they found in her panties in the crotch didn't come from jonbenet's vagina but was secondary transferred. for which werner spitz said yes. they don't say where jonbenet's blood on the crotch of her underwear was secondarily transferred from.

cyril wecht contradicts that as did the medical examiner, so henry lee's entire forensic analysis is faulty.

as far as pineapple mystery, mr cruel and occk and the killer of amy mihavic fed their child victims food so it's hardly unheard of.

mr cruel, occk, amy mihavic's killer could have fed jonbenet pineapple before killing her.

regarding ransom note + body, many examples from zodiac to BTK dennis raider to jack the ripper of finding handwritten message and dead body.

as far as body + ransom demands, the ransom note alludes to dirty harry. in the very first scene of dirty harry scorpio sniper fires and kills a girl in a swimming pool from a rooftop, then leaves the ransom note along with dead girl body in swimming pool.

i do wonder if bill mcreynalds, his wife and a third person arrived at the crime scene, bill convinced jonbenet to open the door, then his wife and a third person killed jonbenet. bill was familiar with the layout of the home.

ron walker cyril wecht are clearly rdi.

And regarding the sexual assault, Burke stated in the recent interviews that she fell on her bike that day. That could account for the bruising and blood.

Inspector Rex wrote:And regarding the sexual assault, Burke stated in the recent interviews that she fell on her bike that day.  That could account for the bruising and blood.

so is burke saying jonbenet wasn't sexually assaulted on the night she died, or is he saying the bike can explain the "chronic" injuries alleged by some, including a panel of pediatricians.

Neither, it was just a comment Burke made during the interview.

There were "experts" who stated that the "sexual assault" was minor.
I recall one comment that it was no worse than if you had tried to insert a tampon.
RDI of course, fell on this as a "who in their right mind would insert a tampon in a child of that age?".
It was simply someone trying to quantify the damage, and that it was not the typical injuries you find in sexual assault on a child, especially one who has been murdered (by a sexual sadist).

Inspector Rex wrote:Neither, it was just a comment Burke made during the interview.

There were "experts" who stated that the "sexual assault" was minor.  
I recall one comment that it was no worse than if you had tried to insert a tampon.  
RDI of course, fell on this as a "who in their right mind would insert a tampon in a child of that age?".  
It was simply someone trying to quantify the damage, and that it was not the typical injuries you find in sexual assault on a child, especially one who has been murdered (by a sexual sadist).  

yeah i hear all kinds of claims on websleuth reddit ffj topix etc.

in the other documentary on patsy by lifetime
dr leon kelly and dr cyril wetcht are both forensic pathologists and the documentary said that they reviewed the autopy results was that jonbenet received vaginal trauma consistent with a sexual assault.

so unless these posters are forensic pathologists or are quoting forensic pathologists by name their claims can be dismissed under daubert

dr leon kelly also said conclusion of chronic child abuse is not justified by evidence both in lifetime and the aetv documentary

a "sexual sadist" can engage in any kind of fantasy which may or may not result in major vaginal trauma, i.e OCCK, amy mihlavic, mr cruel

It is in PMPT, Schiller's book. CASKU described the genital trauma as "minor". Of course, they then concluded that this was done as "a staged crime scene intended to mislead the police", however, it shows that some "experts" could not find significant injuries. Perhaps if CASKU knew that she fell on her bike that day, and that she suffered from ongoing genital infections, they may have concluded it was not an issue in her murder.

I think there is a perception that a pretty child, who was part of the pageant scene where she dressed and acted like an adult, would only be murdered for sexual reasons.

Inspector Rex wrote:It is in PMPT, Schiller's book.  CASKU described the genital trauma as "minor".  Of course, they then concluded that this was done as "a staged crime scene intended to mislead the police", however, it shows that some "experts" could not find significant injuries.  Perhaps if CASKU knew that she fell on her bike that day, and that she suffered from ongoing genital infections, they may have concluded it was not an issue in her murder.

I think there is a perception that a pretty child, who was part of the pageant scene where she dressed and acted like an adult, would only be murdered for sexual reasons.  

uh let's see,

https://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Murder-Town-Uncensored-JonBenet/dp/0061096962
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town : The Uncensored Story of the JonBenet Murder and the Grand Jury's Search for the Final Truth Mass Market Paperback – October 18, 1999

PMPT was written sometime 1999 at the earliest, based on a CASKU report written much earlier, possibly 97 or 98.

CASKU consists of FBI profilers, who, it must be stressed, there is no professional qualifications for profilers. CASKU profilers have no training or qualification to say whether the injury is minor

in the years since PMPT science has progressed on all fronts.

PMPT introduces Donald Foster as a forensic linguist. he's not.
FBI profiling is not scientific

this documentary by lifetime was produced in 2016 as well as several others from cbs aetv dateline 2020 reelz




starting @ 48 minutes

Dr leon Kelly and Dr cyril wecht

1- jonbenet was strangled before head blow to a medical certainty

this contradicts many CASKU and other theories the head blow first

2- that Jonbenet was sexually assaulted on the night she died, based on vaginal injury, but the specific nature and degree cannot be stated

any theory that disregards this expert witness testimony fails to meet accepted scientific standards.

they also have howard rile commenting on the handwriting.

not a match to patsy and he explains why

any theory of the crime that has patsy writing the ransom note based on handwriting disregards this expert witness testimony fails to meet accepted scientific standards.

Actually, it was the FBI (not CASKU) to whom Schiller attributed that quote.
I copied it from another (obviously unreliable) source, rather than search through PMPT myself (Ch 14, P53 electronic version).

I assume the FBI have actual qualified "experts" not just profilers.

Inspector Rex wrote:Actually, it was the FBI (not CASKU) to whom Schiller attributed that quote.  
I copied it from another (obviously unreliable) source, rather than search through PMPT myself (Ch 14, P53 electronic version).

I assume the FBI have actual qualified "experts" not just profilers.

CASKU is a subunit of the FBI

and remember that was written in 1999 which is almost 18 years ago

remember the good old days of crimeshots where there was statusquo and roy23 and rupert and sd ?

I posted there some articles circa 2008 or so, where they look at women who were sexually assaulted, bc the women were alive and said so, and something like 50% they found no injuries

Boulder 23 years old, Susannah Chase autopsy initially no sexual assault due to no injuries to her vagina. but then others found semen so yeah she was. and the dna was matched

sex from rape and assault doesn't always result in vaginal injuries that a medical exam can find, and again some of these papers were written 2008-2011 long after PMPT

in the OCCK case they found no vaginal injuries to the 2 girls jill robinson and Kristine Mihelich

incidentally someone contacted me "rootlesswriter" he saw my occk killed jonbenet theory and now he is promoting it on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/47ao1v/the_oakland_county_child_killer_part_3b_jill/

And I guess if the victim is rendered unconscious, then there is less likelihood of trauma, as with Susannah Chase.

The point I am trying to make is that there is no actual physical evidence that she was interfered with in any way. The small particle of cellulose found could have come from toilet paper.

Inspector Rex wrote:And I guess if the victim is rendered unconscious, then there is less likelihood of trauma, as with Susannah Chase.

The point I am trying to make is that there is no actual physical evidence that she was interfered with in any way.  The small particle of cellulose found could have come from toilet paper.

i think that small particle of cellulose found could have come from toilet paper, though not necessarily placed there by jonbenet herself.

i don't have any way to search for info on what sort of material is normally in a 6 year old girl's vagina.

if you could somehow examine a healthy 6 year old girl's vagina,what kind of material would you find and what not?

again i don't have any way to find out.

anyhow, in the expert witness judgment of dr leon kelly and dr cyril wetcht who said they reviewed the autopsy results, they agreed with the medical examiner that jonbenet had injuries to her vagina consistent with a sexual assualt, the specific nature of that assault is inconclusive.

if you want i can provide you links to these documentaries.

if you know what the bit torrent system is and what utorrent is u can also download them

Just watched this and it was much the same overview of the case as the other documentaries. Nothing stood out. The actors they found to play the parts bore striking resemblances to the Ramsey's. After it was over, though, it did post the number to call if you have any information about the case. I hope whomever knows the killer would call and reveal who the real killer is, if he or she is or has been afraid for their life it could be done anonymously. I can't help but think this killer was known before and after the crime, but has kept silent. I don't expect the real killer to call same number and provide information about the crime he committed or turn himself in and confess. He or she wouldn't want to jeopardize the freedom he or she has been enjoying all these years, if he is still alive that is. A deathbed confession if the new DNA testing doesn't reveal anything leading to him, is the only way this case will get solved. If the killer is dead then he or she is paying for it now.