The Nancy Krebs Interview - Part One
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The Nancy Krebs Interview - Part One
by Lynette 22 Tue May 22, 2012 10:40 am
I decided to post this for those of you who have never read it before or for older posters who may like to reread it.
BOULDER POLICE DEPARTMENT
DETECTIVE DIVISION
TO. Commander Joe Pelle
District Attorney's Office
FROM. Det. Tom Trujillo
DATE. 2/22/00
TIME.
RE. P96-21871
PRESENT. A. Det. Tom Trujillo
B. Det. Chuck Heidel
C. Lee Hill
D. Nancy Krebs
E. Alex Hunter
(Tape 1 of 3 tape interview.)
C. (inaudible) the same generation even though 3 years older
D. (inaudible) you were quick
C. That's (inaudible) baby book
D. (inaudible)
C. About your but I think that my focus um initially (inaudible) clarify the context (inaudible) subjected here to control (inaudible) dominance, subjugation. and abuse-(inaudible) participating. continuous participating and then uh
B. (inaudible) before we start, here's my card
C. Thank you very much (inaudible)
B. Tom's on his way over
C. Thank you when he gets here we'll walk you through that I mean !(inaudible)
B. Okay no that's fine) that's fine, actually I'll be following Tom's lead but what I would like to do on this while we're waiting here I can get some preliminary information from you
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Nancy, your name and date of birth and all that stuff
D. Okay
B. It is Nancy right
D. Uh-huh
B. Okay, do you have a middle name Nancy
D. Jo J O
B. J 0, okay
D. And my last name is Krebs K R E B S
B. K R E E
D. No KREBS
B. B S Krebs okay, and your birthday
D. 4/25/62
B. How tall are you and how much do you weigh
D. Uh about 5'5"
B. Okay
D. And I weigh last time 142
B. 142
C. That's okay
B. Brown hair and
D. I have blue eyes
B. And what's your current address
D. Uh in California
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B. Uh
C. Yes
B. Why don't you give me all the addresses where you can be contacted
D. Okay
B. If that's what we need
D. . XXXX
B. Okay
C. (inaudible)
A. Tom Trujillo
D. XXXX
B. okay I'm just getting some preliminary information
C. Nancy Krebs, Det. Tom Trujillo
D. Hi
A. Nancy how you doing
D. Fine
B. (inaudible ) -..
D. Uh-huh
B. And that in
D. Los Osos
C. Los Osos, okay
D. Right
C. Capital O
B. Right
P.9G-21B71 4
C. The first one
B. Los Osos
D. Uh-huh
B. Osos okay and what’s the uh zip code
D. XXXX
B. Okay and a phone number
D. Um-
B. XXXX okay there was another address
D. Just through office
(Recording went dead at this point.)
B. Huh, aw well it's (inaudible) of technology
A. Okay~ this is for the recording here um. what you've shown me so far is is copies of your baby book and some photographs including photos of Fleet White Sr. and then some photographs of Fleet White Jr.'s children
D. Yeah and there should
A. Connect
D. Be a…actual… a picture of Fleet White
C. (inaudible)
D. At his wedding.
A. Okay, and where did these photographs come from, I mean the ones (inaudible) obviously but where did these other photographs come from
D. From my grandma’s um photo album
A. Okay and that's still out in California
D. Yeah
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A. Okay~ now this photo, there's a video of these photographs is that correct is that what this is
C. None none of these videos of other family photographs and correspondence
D. Oh there it is
A. Okay okay so this is Fleet White Jr’s wedding picture
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay, you can pull that one out, and who were the people again that photograph hard to see um kind of from left to right who's this female in the white shirt
D. Let me see
A. A white dress
D. Can I look at it
A. Sure
D. It's a little bit hard, that's uh Nyla
A. Okay, which would be Fleet White's
D. Mother
A. Okay
D. Fleet White Jr., his wife Priscilla, his father
A. Okay
D. And his sister Loni
A. Okay, and the original photograph is out in California
D. Right
A. Okay, so I need to pull this out, if you don't mind
B. For the record that was from a page 20 from a
P96-2187l 6
C. Fax
B. From a fax right
D. Uh-huh
B. Is that what that was from
A. Okay so
D. And this is uh this is a horrible picture (inaudible) uh the quality of it but this is a picture of Fleet White Jr. and Fleet and that's a picture of little Fleet
A. Okay so this is Fleet White Jr ., one who is currently in Boulder
D. Right
A. And his son
D. Right
A. Okay, and that's on page (inaudible) hard to tell 16
B. Looks like page 16 from the fax copy from
A. And then these other photographs uh the other pages of photographs um one's not numbered uh but these are all family photographs of Fleet White's…Fleet White Jr's children, where were these taken at
D. Um
A. Have any idea
D. Well it it says right here, it's written on there that this is before they moved to Colorado
A. Okay
D. And that they were 5 and 3 1/2 years old
A. Okay
D. And that they were taken at a children's museum in Tennessee
A. Okay, very good, that kind of that way I can go back and try to figure out what's what as far
P96-21871
as all these photos go, okay, and then you have this greetings from Fleet and Nyla that would be Fleet White Sr.
D. Right ,
A. And his wife and who are the two children in there
D. Uh Fleet White I guess, he's really Fleet White III
A. Okay
D. And Daphne
A. Got it and that was taken in Aspen in 1997
D. Right
A. Okay
D. Was sent,
A. So on the video tape is another photograph
D. Uh-huh
A. Is that right, okay, um so I guess I guess there's some sort of a connection between you and the White families. Fleet White Sr., Fleet White Jr., I understand that, uh let's start kinda back in the beginning it's probably the easiest way i
D. Okay, can we read this forst
A. Sure
D. I think (inaudible)
A. What what
D. Um
A. What is this
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D. It's a it's a letter to my grandmother
A. Uh-huh
D. From uh Nyla White
A. Okay
D. And I think it has some significance because it talks about how uh they would spend Christmases with my mom
A. Uh-huh
D. And my grandmother (Very long pause) (50 sec pause)
A. And Gordon is
D. It's my grandpa that passed away
(Long pause) (20 sec pause)
A. I'm. it talks about Fleet and Loni, would be Fleet White Jr.
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay
(Long pause) (25 sec pause)
D. (inaudible). when will she (inaudible) communication
C. Huh
D. (inaudible)
C. (inaudible)
A. Okay, that's fine (inaudible) ~ so let's start back let's (inaudible) start back as far as you can first remember um your family and the White's family being together, when was that
D. Probably when I was about 3 years old
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A. Okay, so the White's have been um friends of your parents, grandparents
D. Both
A. For many, many years
D. Yes
A. Okay, um where did you guys live at that time
D. Where did I live
A. Yeah where did you live
D. I lived in Buena Park
A. Okay, and Fleet White Sr. was good friends with your grandfather, is that correct
D. And my grandma
A. And your grandma
D. Both
A. Okay, and where did the Fleet White Sr. live at that time
D. In Hunt, not Hunt, in Long Beach
A. Long Beach okay
D. Uh-huh !
A. Um kinda kinda bring me up to date just a little bit um you know how you kept in touch With the White family, that sort of thing and then talk about go into a little bit more detail if you would (inaudible) kind kind of tell me throughout the years you know I mean have you kept in touch with the Whites, have you have you communicated with the Whites I mean obviously there's communications from 1997 uh but kinda start back from when you first remember and go forward and kinda give me an idea of… of a your contacts with the Whites
D. And like …
A. Just general contacts
D. Well that's really hard to do because I would say that my contacts weren’t 'general contacts
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with them
A. Okay, um I mean did you cause it talks about it a little bit um Christmas time, that sort of thing, let's start there um I mean I understand there's some other things some subtle things goin' on in this letter but kinda generally and how often would the Whites visit you guys, your grandparents, your parents that sort of thing .
D. Very often
A. Okay, daily, weekly
D. Uh I would say at holidays
A. Okay
D. Christmas, Easter um and uh birthdays, like my grandpa's birthday or my grandma's birthday or
A. Okay so
D. Fleet Senior's birthday or Nyla's birthday
A. Okay so generally and and let's talk about, let's break the families up into… there's too many Fleets here
C. Uh-huh
A. I want let's let's break the family up into Fleet White Sr. um and Nyla corrrect
D. Uh uh-huh
A. Um they would visit your folks or your grandparents
D. My grandparents
A. Okay so Fleet White Sr. and Nyla would visit your grandparents on on the average, the major holidays throughout the years is that what you're saying um Christmas, Easter, and birthdays
D. Birthdays uh-huh
A. Okay any any other times that
D. I'm sure there were other times but I don't know exact dates it would be real hard for me to give exact dates from that point or
P96-21871
A. That's fine that's fine, um when did Fleet White Jr. start comin' into the.picture
D. Well he was always in the picture
A. Right as, what I mean is he's comin' over with Fleet White Sr., when did Fleet White Jr. um I mean is he (inaudible) is he good friends with your grandparents or good friends with your parents both
D. Both
A. Okay okay um kinda as a time reference here, when when did the assaults start, actually who who started the assaults, Fleet White Sr. or Fleet White Jr., the assaults on you
D. Uh Fleet, on me
A. Uh-huh
D. Fleet White Sr.
A. Okay, kinda as a reference, time reference, when do you first remember those starting
D. Around the age of 3 but closer to 4
A. Okay 3 to 4 years old
D. Oh-huh
A. Okay, and where would those occur at
D. Um sometimes at my grandparent's house
A. Okay
D. Oh sometimes at different locations
A. Okay, when they occurred at your grandparent's house, is that over one of these holiday type weekend type things
D. Uh-huh
A. Um that the Whites would be present at
D. Yes
P96-21871 12
A. Okay um, who all was present, 1 mean during those holidays obviously Fleet White Sr. and Nyla uh Fleet White Jr., any other children present
D. Loni
A. Okay, and Loni is
D. Fleet White's sister
A. Okay and who else
D. Uh myself
A. Uh-huh
D. And um my sister would have only been about a year old
A. Okay, were all the children involved in the assaults or was it just you so specifically was Loni there um was your little sister involved
D. At a year and a half, I don't remember
A. Uh-huh
D. Her being there doing anything to my sister at that time
A. Okay
D. Um but Fleet, I don't remember anything with Loni either
A. Okay
D. But I do remember things with uh Fleet White Jr.
A. Okay um
D. Who woulda been about 15 or 16 years old
A. Okay was Fleet White Jr. the victim of these assaults, or was he a suspect in the assaults, Was he a perpetrator when when you can first remember the assaults when he was pressent
D. I think that he was made to do things to me
A. Okay
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D. So I don't know if you want to call that a perpetrator or
A. Okay, he was one of the actors in the assaults
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay um Loni wasn't involved in this that .you can remember
D. I mean she coulda been in a different place
A. Okay
D. Having things done to her
A. Okay, um and you started going through time um start movin' forward, do you ever remember your sis your sister, younger sister bein' involved or being the victim of these assaults
D. Yes
A. Okay
D. Uh-huh
A. When's the first recollection that that occurred
D. Uh...probably when I was about 6 years old
D. Uh 10 old, your sister's a year and a half younger than you
A. Okay uh
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay and what's your sister's name
D. XXXX last name now.
A. And XXXX
D. XXXX
A. XXXX
D. XXXX
P96-21871
A. And where's XXXX livin' right now
D. Germany
A. How come she's out in Germany
D. Uh she transferred
A. She
D. From Arvada to Germany
A. Arvada Arvada, Colorado
D. Yeah
A. Oh she was a local person
D. For a while
A. Okay is she in the military or anything
D. She's a civilian but works for the military
A. With the military
D. Uh-huh
A. Which branch of government is she in
D. Um. XXXX
A. Okay.; how old is she right now
D. 35
A. Okay, I want to come back to XXXX in just a little bit, so the first time you kinda remember um XXXX also being a victim of these sex assaults, cause when you were 6 that made XXX about 4 and 1/2
D. Uh-huh
A. That right, and where was that at again kinda generally which
P96-21871
D. Well I (inaudible) I uh
A. (inaudible) occurred
D. I would say probably my grandparent's house
A. Okay, did anything ever occur at your mom and dad's house
D. Yes, uh-huh
A. Okay, tell me about, let's start with some of the things that may
D. Can
A. Have occurred at mom and dad's, go ahead
D. Can I say something cause
A. Sure
D. I have to do this, um and this is really important um my grandfather
A. Uh-huh
D. Died on his birthday February 6, 1966
A. Okay
D. And the Whites were attending a party and uh what I remember about that is that my grandpa was trying to protect me
A. Uh-huh
D. And that Fleet Sr. and my grandpa were in a screaming match, yelling and screaming at each other and my grandpa had a massive heart attack
A. Okay, and this is fact
D. And died and that's really important
A. This was at his birthday, your grandpa's birthday
D. Uh-huh
P96-21871
A. Okay, who
D. And I just, I remember an argument happening and I don't remember what was being said cause I was only, I was almost 4 years old then
A. Uh-huh
D. And I remember my grandpa grabbin his chest and falling to the ground
A. Okay, I'm sorry, do you remember what the argument was about
D. No
A. Just that they were screaming
D. Something about…that they were screaming that Fleet had got out he was tryin' to tough me or something and my grandpa just got really upset
A. Uh-huh
D. For some reason and they had a screaming match
A. Okay and this is Fleet Sr.
D. Right
A. Okay, um did you talk to your grandma about this at all, who else have you talked to about all these assaults
D. I haven't talked to my grandmother about that
A. Okay, uh have you talked to your mom or dad about either one of these, and of the assaults or anything
D. About any of the assaults, a lot of times there where there so I wouldn't have to talk to them about it
A. Okay and I guess that's what's (inaudible) I'm not understanding a 100% so your mom and dad were present in the room during the assaults…or they were just there in the house during the assaults
D. My mom
P96-21871
A. Does that make sense
D. Yeah. well they were often present during the assaults
A. Okay so your mom and dad both knew about what was occurring
D. Yes
A. Okay um and they knew, what was occurring to both you and your sister
D. Yes
A. Okay, were they a part of this
D. Yes
A. Okay. how were they a part of the assaults
D. Well they let them happen
A. Okay. um did your did your father physically assault you at all
D. Yeah
A. Sexually assault you
D. (inaudible) things about my dad
A. Okay, um
D. Wrapping me up in blankets. keeping the blankets really tight so I couldn't get out of it
A. Okay
D. Um I can remember being whipped belts. and I would uh pee in my bed or something like that
A. Okay so were your mom and dad, the assaults, were they limited to the kind of physical assault type thing. physical and mental assaults um or did they also include sexual assaults
D. They also included sexual assaults
A (inaudible)
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D. And uh my mom…was that she would actually sometimes take me to places and witness things that have happened to me
A. Okay what do you mean take you to places
D. Like- take me over to the Whites
A. Okay
D. Or the there were other locations that they would take me to
A. Okay okay so your mom was physically active in actually kind of giving you to the Whites is that what I'm hearing
D. Right
A. Okay, and this is this started with Fleet White Sr.
D. Yes
A. When did Fleet White Jr. get involved other than when he was kind of a participant at 16 um when did he kinda physically take over become involved in this
D. When he was doing it willingly is that what
A. Yeah
D. You're asking me
A. Yeah .
D.………….need to think
A. Okay
D. And probably when I was around 7 ~ 8 years old
A. Okay, that's when he kinda became an active participant on his own as it were
D. Uh-huh, uh~huh
A. Okay, um when's your birthday
D. 4/25
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A. 62
D. 62
A. Okay, uh
D. And Fleet White is 50 years old
A. Okay, so he's about
D. 13
A. 12 years older than you. 13 years older than you
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay um let me let me back up for just a second, we talked about Fleet White Sr. and we talked about Fleet White Jr. um and unfortunately let's define assaults I do you remember were they kind of a fondling. touching type of an assault or did they go beyond that
D. No they went beyond that
A. Okay for both Fleet White Sr. and Jr.
D. Yes
A. Okay, um. tell me how far they went beyond that is it um
D. Penetration and
A. Okay, like digital penetration with their fingers
D. No penetration with their penises
A. Okay. um vaginally
D. Yes
A. What about anally
D. Yeah
A. Okay so penetration both orifices
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D. Uh-huh
A. Okay, what about oral sex
D. Oral copulation
A. Okay um where they made you un they placed their penis into you into your mouth, that sort of thing
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay and we're talkin' about both Fleet Sr. and Jr. doing this
D. Yeah
A. Okay uh when was the last time this occurred ,
D. Last time?
A. Uh, the most recent
D. The last time that I can remember Fleet White Sr. was when uh he came to my grandparents house in Cayucos
A. Cayucos, where's that
D. It's in California I
A. Okay
D. And it's about 5 miles from my home
A. Okay and when was that
D. Um, can I look
A. Sure anything that will help you
B. While you're at it, how do you spell Cayucos
D. CAYUCOS
A. Okay
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D. The ninth of August 1980
A. Okay, and what's what are we looking here
D. That's uh the will of my grandfather
A. Uh-huh
D. And um it's um Fleet White’s signature as a witness and Nyla White. as a witness too
A. Okay and this is in it's hard to read the date 19…
D. 80
A. August 1980
D. Uh-huh
B. (inaudible)
A. Is that, that's supposed to be an 80
D. I think it
A. 19
D. Actually I think it should be a 90
A. 1990
D. Yeah
A. Okay and this is when Fleet White Jr. and his mom
D. No this is Fleet White Sr.
A. Okay this is Fleet White Sr., so the last sex assault that occurred to you by Fleet White Sr. .was back in August of 1990
D. Right
A. Is that right trying to get some of these straight and that’s after this photo it’s kind of a two page photocopy that rolls over, it's a it's supposed to be a legal size document Lee (inaudible )
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C. (inaudible) I just received it on a fax machine and I assume it's the standard (inaudible)
A. (inaudible)
C. (inaudible) will
A. Okay, um when is the last time that Fleet White Jr. um was a suspect, when was the last time he did any type of sexual assault on you
D. Uh the best that I can remember it would have
A. We want you to .remember
D. Okay, it would had of been between uh 1976 and 1978
A. Okay, and where would that have occurred at
D. In Trona, California, Trona T R O N A
A. Okay, uh so '76 to '78…um…the kind there's there's kind of a big skip, I mean Fleet White Jr. stops in '78, um Senior doesn't stop until '90, were you around Fleet white Jr. between '78 and '90, have you been around him at all
D. I've seen him
A. Okay seen him like I mean like on TV or seen him personally
D. No in a more in a more casual setting at my aunt and uncle's house in Bakersfield
A. Okay, when was the last time you saw Fleet White Jr. in Bakersfield or saw at all
D. Uh woulda been in probably around in the .8O's mid mid 8Os
A. Okay um that's kind of a casual you just got kind of a casual atmosphere
D. Uh-huh
A. Uh
D. Where Fleet and Priscilla had come to visit my uh uncle
A. Okay
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D. And Aunt in Bakersfield
A. But there wasn't any type of assault on you at that time
D. No
A. Okay um ...any reason why Fleet White Jr. stopped the assaults back in '78 I guess (inaudible)
D. We1l..."um I think because it……it had gotten to a point where I was being abused so much that um people were noticing things where I was going to school
A. Uh-huh
D. And they reported that there was some child abuse going on
A. Okay
D. And at that point in time I went to uh sex investigation and then later uh they went to a preliminary hearing and then the person um pleaded no contest to statutory rape and sodomy
A. Okay um we just pulled out a photograph of a person in Inyo County
D. Inyo
A. I N Y O County um Independence, California is that right
D. Right
A. Okay let's, who who's who's this a photograph of
D. Mackey Boykin
A. MACKY
D. Well he spelled it different ways
A. Okay
D. MACKIE or MACKEY
A. Okay...,Boykin
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D. Uh-huh BOYKIN
A. Okay and when was this when was this booking photo taken
D. In '80
A. 1980
D. I think it says one or is that 81
A. It's hard to okay '80, '81 something like that; now how does how does Mackie fit into all this; who's Mackie
D. Mackie was uh my stepfather's brother
A. Okay
D. But not at the time that this was going on, he was my mom, when she was married to my dad
A. Uh-huh
D. Had several men that would come over to our house and Mackie's brother Mackie's sister Lived down the street from us in Buena Park
A. Okay, let let me back up just a little, what's your mom's name
D. Gwen
A. Got that G W
D. EN
A. E N and Boykin
D. BOYKIN
A. What's your real father's name
D. Don
A. Last. name
D. Krebs (inaudible) yeah
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A. Okay, when were they married…or were they married
D. Where
A. When were they married
D. I think 1960
A. Okay about '60, and they were divorced, you talked about
D. Well my Dad left when I was about 6 years old
A. Okay so when was that 19..
D. '68
A. Okay, what do you mean your Dad left
D. He moved to San Luis Obispo
A. Okay um
D. And uh and my sister and I stayed with my mom and my brother went with my dad.
A. Okay so did Mom get a divorce at that point in time
D. Uh huh
A. Okay your mom saw, or was seeing other people at that time
D. Well she was seeing other people while she was still married to my Dad
A. Okay and that's where this guys comes into (can't read the next part)
D. Right
A. Okay um and he was arrested in 1980 for sexual assaults on you
D. Right
A. Okay, and that’s and so you think that's why Fleet (cough) there were some changes goin on, people were noticing things about you, is that correct
D. Right
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A. And that's why Fleet um stopped the sex assaults back in 1978 does that make sense
D. Around that
A. Around that time
D. Time (inaudible)
A. Okay. and we're talking about um Junior
D. Right
A. And Fleet White Sr. continued the sex assaults against you all the way up through 1990 is that right
D. Right
A. Okay, um did you bring that to any other than mom's attention. Did you bring that to the attention of social services or anybody um during that time
D. During that time
A. Yeah
D. No but I did when I started um in therapy
A. Okay when did you start therapy
D. I'm not really sure
A. Okay
D. I mean it
(inaudible)
D. I've been in it in therapy about 10 years
A. So about 1990. does that sound right
C. Can can I interject
A. Sure
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C. Her therapist is available to cooperate with this
A. Okay
C. And she's not a uh latent memory developer, she's not a hypnotist or anything like that and I've been in her offices in XXXX
A. Okay
C. And uh she she has notes that indicate references to abuse by the Whites that predate the event
A. Okay and and again that the therapy started probably around 1990 does that sound
C. They both told me about 10 years ago
A. Okay
C. Also just for illustration) I don't know (inaudible) and I'm sorry
A. That's fine
C. But I'm trying to help and of course you all know this is difficult for for her but these are school records of Nancy indicating the number of absences
A. Uh-huh
C. And reasons for that and these three are for
D. (inaudible) when I was in the seventh grade
A. Okay
D. And there were things going on in in San Luis Obispo County I was in seventh grade, I had missed 45 days of school, 37 of them were because I was ill and 8 because of family emergenc ies
A. Okay
D. And in the eighth grade I had missed 21 days and I had only, I only stayed there until March
A. Okay
D. And I don't know how many family emergencies there were
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A. Okay, and 9th through 11 th grade
D. Um
A. Where are those records
D. That, they should be in Trona and I've actually tried to get my records from Trona and they tell me that they don't have my records
A. Okay, Trona
D. California
A. Okay and that's what this is up here at the top
D. Right
A. Torona Joint Unified School District...okay um, when we get all done what I'll do is I'll have you um sign some releases so we can talk to the therapist, so we can uh get some school records that sort of thing if you wouldn't mind, we'll get to that at the very end um so and this guy here um who did you tell about the sex assaults involving this guy
D. Well at first I didn't tell anybody
A. Okay
D. Then I was close to a teacher in... at Trona High School
A. Uh-huh
D. And some other teachers and they were noticing that things were going on
A. Uh-huh
D. That I was coming to school in different states of mind and they called...uh the authorities
A. Okay um so a school teacher at Trona High School
D. Right
A. And about what year was that
D. Uh…
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A. What what year of school was if that that's easier, we can figure out how ~old you are
D. I think that it was in uh it had been in '78 or '79
A. Okay
D. Cause the actual trial was um July 8 of 1980
A. Okay, so you told the school teacher about this guy here
B. You want to take a break, this (inaudible) if you want to this will be a very good time to do it
A. Yeah you want to take a break
B. (inaudible)
A. Real quick
B. Or are you okay!
C. Can I explain
B. Sure
C. In my
B. Uh-huh
C. Conversations with her over you know we've been talking I guess five different days and uh she's real good about um pressing through but there reaches a point there if she recalls these events um on three occasions she's been uh curled up on the floor sobbing for a long time so I mean that may be coming but
A. Okay
C. She's very courageous
A. What we can do is let's um let's take about 5 minutes you can go to the bathroom or anything maybe get a glass of water um and that way maybe we can try to figure out what's wrong with the tape so I don't have to keep flipping the tape when we talk without messing up the tape recorder
D. Okay
P96-21B71
A. All right, let's stop the tape right now it's it's actually about 3.40 in the afternoon, okay
C. Can I get you on this (inaudible)
B. You want to use the restroom
D. No
B. Okay
D. I'm actually still okay
B. We'll, you sit here, take a break then okay
(Electronic noise.)
C. In these events where she would be handed over, almost all of them were filmed
B. Uh-huh
C. So she has a XXXX reaction XXXX view of a camera (can't read the line)
(electronic noise)
B. And I tell all the defense-attorney that come in and it's just um, it's kind SOP as um assume that you are
C. Okay (inaudible)
B. And that way that way you know there's no (inaudible)
C. Right and and that (inaudible)
B. There's no secrets you know assume that you are
C. Yeah
B. And then nobody can beat you up, nobody can be accused of being sneaky about it
C. What were, and we were discussing that just a moment ago and and she's completely fine with that
B. Okay
P96-21871
C. And it helps her that she doesn’t have to look at the camera
B. Okay, all right, you know I worked I I worked a 9 ½ year old being the 9/1/2 year old, 9 ½ years being the last time the assault occurred and according to us was 9 ½ years, according to the defense after it went to trial was 10 ½ years old because the statute was the statute of limitation
C. Oh
B. Exten extenuating situation er circumstances
C. Uh-huh
B. Which extended the the um the statute of limitations on that one but um uh you know I I know from experience that these are difficult
B. And and you you’re doin’ a good job, what what really helps and it helped when we went to trial on this one , is that um you use some sort of anchors to remember stuff you know jeez I was a junior that year and I remember because you know little things, little things it was snowing out that day
D. My house
B. And and I recall that and we got a phone call from a uncle overseas or something like that. It helps to have those little anchors that that when we have to when we go back to corroborate this stuff we can do it a little bit easier but you don’t, I mean, you don’t
D. But I have so much stuff crammed in my head
B. And you know what helps also because you these things take these they go over such a long period of time it happened so many times is that what helps is that you pick out ones that really stand out you know um ones that I know this happened because and again then you throw an anchor in there in that and and it it helps us and it helps you to to nail it down, it helps other people that might be witnesses to that you know um so that and that’s why we’re asking um detailed questions or Tom’s asking you detailed questions about you know what was going on at the time who was where, it gets a little confusing some times but usually first time through it’s really confusing for you if people don’t that don’t know the information because it’s all fresh (inaudible) the so and so is or or grandfather or whatever we go through it 3 or 4 times and then we become familiar with it so, you’re not, you’re losing us but we’ll catch up on some of this stuff all right okay um let me uh let you go ahead and continue your break, see if this thing’s working
P96-21871
C. Are you doin okay
D Uh
C. (inaudible)
D. (inaudible)
C. (You know I think I (inaudible)
D. No
C. (inaudible), detective
B. Yes
(Talking outside the interview room.)
C. You’re being very patient
D. Huh
C. You are being very patient, you know you can…I know you have a tendency to follow a question there’s parameters but on several occasions you’ve offered additional information because I know that you have a narrative that’s more important then they are eliciting from you, and you should feel free to go ahead go ahead and say it everything …it will help actually…you’re not being examined in court some of the formalities associated with testifying aren’t so present here and so you know they’re tryin’ to help you recreate…..what they may not understand is the……you have amplified comments that will make it that much clearer
D. I have what
C. You have amplified comments so it will make it that much clearer, I understand that cause we’ve been working together for several days…..but um feel free to help with them okay
D. That’s what I’m here for
C. Right
D. (inaudible)
C. (inaudible) study the uh RTD (inaudible)
P96-21871
D. Oh……are they gonna bring us some coffee
C. Yes
(Long silence.)
C. Now I’d like to help them (inaudible) okay (inaudible)
(Many inaudible voices coming from outside the interview room.)
A. They’re watching’ Comedy Club in there
C. I didn’t
A. Lee uh
C. Successfully dubbed with the tape
A. Lee didn’t dub the tape quite right and so they’re they’re lookin’ at Comedy Club
C. God damit, fortunately I have the original
A. Good well actually just bring the original and uh if you have the original tape uh we have high 8 player
C. Uh-huh
A. That we can go right from high 8 to video um and that’s…that’s these pictures I mean……might have a hard time but what may be best for us is um is actually get the original photographs on some of these, we could actually make photocopies, color photocopies so we can see ‘em um so that they’re no um and some of these are very dark and I you know I kinda kinda tell who they are um only cause I know the people uh but I think it would be better if we had actually good, clean photocopies……and we can do that you know we can photocopy for you
C. (inaudible)
A. That’s what
C. (inaudible) I plugged the VCR into the input jacks and I guess I have to switch a button to change it from uh cable connection to VHS
A. Probably, like I said ours we have a deck in the other room it’s all set up for that so we can get it without a problem okay
P96-21871
C. Okay
A. So, when Chuck comes back well start our tape back up….. then we’ll have that just in case this other microphone doesn’t quite work and uh we’ll kinda go from there, you okay with Pepsi, do you want a glass of water of somthin’
D. No, I’m fine
A. Okay, if you have to stop and go to the bathroom or anything you know get too warm of whatever
(Sound of door closing.)
C. Well I though, no I mean, I hope it was also funny and a good routine
B. From what I saw of it it was ok
A. Actually from what I saw, I didn’t I didn’t recognize the uh the comic but it was some comic, Comic Club okay uh, let me start that back up like I said we’ll kinda use that as our judge um again if we have to take any breaks at all, you let me know and we’ll stop okay um I think probably, now that we got kind of a basis um of different things let’s start back in 1990 okay cause that’s the last time there were any sex assaults against you, is that correct
D. No it’s not the last time there were any sexual assaults against me
A. Okay
D. (inaudible)
A. By Fleet White Sr. or Fleet White Jr.
D. Right
A. Okay so 1990 was….I I think that’s a good cut off date um and again if we need to go forward we can do that we can start from present day and go back to 1990 but uh for now since we’re kinda focusing on Fleet White Sr. and Jr. um let’s start at 1990 and kinda work our way back, that sound like a good idea, good way to start cause I got, we kinda jumped around quite a bit, different dates and stuff so start in 1990, um that’s when you started therapy in 1990 correct
D. Uh-huh
A. And that was the last time that Fleet White Sr. sexually assaulted you
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D. Uh-huh
A. Is that correct
D. That I remember uh-huh
A. Okay, um where did that assault occur
D. At my grandpa’s house
A. In California
D. In Cayucos uh-huh
A. Okay, um let’s let’s kinda start with that assault there……who all was involved in the assault, was it just Fleet White Sr. and you or were there other people in the room
D. Um…..there were other people in the room to start with
A. Okay
D. But then I was taken down to a a bedroom in my grandma’s place the upstairs most like a living room, kitchen and downstairs it was two bedrooms
A. Okay uh when you started in the in the main room with other people um how did Fleet White Sr. um get you out of that room and downstairs
D. He just asked me to come with him
A. Okay, um did anybody else acknowledge that you left there at that time
D. Yes I mean everybody that was in the room saw me leaving with
A. Okay
D. Fleet White Sr. to go downstairs
A. Okay, who all was in the room at that time
D. It would be my grandfather, Albert Sprague, my grandma, Alice Spraig and Nyla
A. Okay so
D. (inaudible)
P96-21871
A. So Fleet White’s wife Nyla and your grandparents
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay um did your grandparents have knowledge of what Fleet was gonna do with you
D. Yes
A. Okay, now were they actively, is this something they were actively involved in also as far as sexually assaulting you does that make sense
D. Well they provided a place for sex um numerous sexual assaults to occur
A. Okay, so they they kinda provided a place
D. Uh-huh
A. Did they have knowledge of what was goin’g on
D. Yes
A. Okay, so your grandparents and Fleet White’s wife were present in the room and they knew that Fleet White took you downstairs
D. Yes
A. Okay, what occurred specifically during that assault since that's the most recent one involving the Whites.
D. Um first remember that he asked me to undress
A. Okay
D. And that he took several pictures of me with a Polaroid camera
A. Okay, Do you know where those photographs are at now (inaudible)
D. I have no idea
A. He took those with him
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay so he took several Polaroid photos of you
P96-21871
D. Yes
A. Were you dressed or undressed at that time
D. Undressed, he had me undress
A. Okay
D. And took several photographs
A. Uh-huh
D. And ever since I’ve been a little girl he always would call me his little tyke or his little princess or you know he would……um……hard to describe him……he would he even though I was an adult he was talking to me as a if I were a child
A. Okay……when he called you little tyke or little princess did that only occur during the sexual assaults or did that occur at other times
D. No that occurred at other times
A. Okay, so that was kind of his pet name for you
D. Right
A. As his little tyke or little princess
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay, and goin’ back to the sex assault, after he took photographs of you what occurred then
D. Then uh……my granma had a uh a……headboard on her bed and he tied my hands up to the headboard
A. Uh-huh
D. And……(long pause)……he um------started rubbin’ his body all over my body
A. Okay, we talkin’ about like a massage type thing with lotion or just kinda rubbin’ up against you
D. No it was more like groping
A. Okay
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D. I think it is a better word
A. Okay
B. Is he undressed at this point
D. Uh-huh
B. Uh what’s distinguishable about his body
A. Any scars or tattoos, big marks or anything like that
D. No to be perfectly honest, when uh…..many of uh the assaults occurred I just didn’t really pay attention to things like that
A. Okay
D. I mean I didn’t……I was tryin’ to do something you know trying’ to think of something else other than this man groping my body
A. Okay, by groping um you talking about just two bodies rubbing together or was he fondling you with his hands that sort of groping, is that what you’re talkin’ about
D. I’m talking about that he was rubbing his penis all over my body
A. Okay, okay um at that, did he ever have intercourse with you at that time
D. Yes
A. Okay, um oral intercourse
D. ...as best as I can remember
A. Okay what about vaginal intercourse
D. Yes (inaudible)
A. And anal intercourse
D. Yes
P96-21871
A. Okay um
D. I I I tell you this that….um….I do remember this really clear but he had the uh sodomized me at the very end
(End side one, tape one.)
D. He would pull out before he was ready to ejaculate in me, stick his penis in my mouth
A. Okay, so he’d go from anal intercourse to stickin’ his penis in your mouth
D. Right
A. Okay um
D. Or not just anal intercourse, also vaginally
A. Okay, so ei either time when he was havin’ intercourse with you he’d pull out and place his penis in in your mouth
D. Right, but that didn’t always happen
A. Okay but more specifically in in 1990 the last time is that kind of the events that occurred
D. That he ended I’m really clear on that he ended by sodomizing me
A. Okay okay, now obviously not the last time you’ve seen Fleet White Sr.
D. No
A. In 1990, um did you tell anybody you know like a girlfriend um other than your therapist, did you tell anybody else about that encounter in 1990
D. No
A. Okay and there have been other sexual encounter, sexual assaults against you since 1990 right
D. Right
A. But not with Fleet White Sr. or Fleet White Jr.
D. Right
P96-21871
A. Okay um, you have som….can we go like a year increments, five year increments, about how many times between say 1985 and 1990 did Fleet White Sr. sexually assault you
D. 1985 to 1990?
A. Is that too is that too big of a time span
D. …Well I really have to think about that
A. Okay
D. You know it’s like
A. Let let’s let’s start the
D. Oh can I say something
A. Sure
D. (inaudible) um……just because that was the last time that Fleet White…..uh physically did anything to me
A. Uh-huh
D. Does not mean that he hasn’t been asking me just recently to
A. Okay, tell me about that
D. And that has happened before I came to Colorado, where he had been calling my grandma
A. Okay
D. On a daily basis and he told me that his wife, who asked to talk to me, called my grandma’s number
A. Uh
D. And told me that his wife, Nyla, was in Costa Mesa and wanted to know if I would fly to Aspen, Colarado
A. Okay, when did this conversation take place
D. Um…..I don’t know….uh if I could look at a calendar something I can give you a better…..
P96-21871
C. May I show her a calendar
A. Sure, you got one otherwise we can, I can go get a calendar, I can have somebody bring in a calendar um are we talking about this year
D. I’m talkin’ about right before I came here
A. Okay
C. Okay
A. So today is what the 22nd
C. February, we’re right here uh no uh yes that’s a Tuesday this this column is Monday so February 22, you came here on Saturday the 19th
D. Okay
C. And uh this uh is the Friday before and um we first met on Friday the uh 11th
D. Right, so…….oh I ihow um……..I would say that the call started either the 7th or the 8th of February
A. Of this year of 2000
D. Right, uh-huh
A. Okay and those were calls to your grandma’s house (inaudible)
D. Well my grandma lives with me and my grandma has a separate phone line
A. Okay, did the calls come in on your grandmother’s phone line or your phone line
C. (Coughing)
D. On her phone line, my grandmother’s phone line
C. (inaudible)
A. Sure
C. Sorry
A. (inaudible) for you
96-21871
B. What’s that phone number
D. It is um area code XXXX
A. Now would would your grandmother release toll records to us (inaudible)
D. Will my grandmother what
A. Release her toll records to us
D. I have no idea
A. Who who pays who pays the phone bills
D. My grandma
A. Okay
D. Pays her phone bill and I have my own
A. Okay, but you’re talking about the phone calls that came in on the 7th and 8th of February, came into your grandmother’s phone line correct
D. Right
A. Not to your phone line
D. Right
A. Okay um what I need to do is is there a way to look at to see um what long distance phone calls your grandmother received at that time
D. Well I don’t know that, I mean I would know that there were there would be ways to look at her phone bill
A. Okay that that’s what I (inaudible)
D. But the calls…but the the calls the calls were
A. Were they local calls or were they long distance calls
D. No they were long distance calls
A. Okay so they so if Fleet White Sr. was callin’ from Aspen to grandmother’s house
P96-21871
D. Right
A. Okay that’s what I need to know
C. From Aspen or from California
D. From Aspen
C. He was callin’ …..can….can
A. Go on
C. I provide some context…..she’s terrified of her grandmother
A. Okay
C. Her grandmother has participated in handing her over (inaudible) the role of her grandmother living with her is basically a dominant domineering watchdog
A. Okay
C. And so there there’s a great deal of terror that she has associated with
A. Okay
C. He….that why she left
A. Okay , and and that’s um what I was trying’ to get at is the phone calls from Aspen, CO correct
D. Right and I think that my grandma……made at least one if not two calls back to Fleet White
A. Fleet White Sr.
D. In aspen
A. Okay now let let’s talk about the calls from Fleet White Sr. on the 7th and 8th, what exactly did he did he say during those phone calls
D. ...uh...I’m just tryin’ to get clear in my mind
A. Okay
D. Which…..came first which day
P96-21871
A. Okay
D. He said what
A. So you’re talkin’ about February let’s let’s start with February 7th, looks like it’s a Monday um what time of the day did those phone calls come in, morning, afternoon, or evening
D. I don’t know but I have uh I don’t know right now but I have a record of them
A. Okay
D. Because every time that Fleet Sr. called my house I called my therapist
A. Okay
D. And told her
A. So they they would be in your therapist’s records
D. Uh-huh and I also called a friend of mine uh an elderly friend of mine and told her at the time to call my grandma’s phone number so that she would know that it was busy and that that this is the person that she was talking to
A. Okay, who who’s this elderly person that you talked to
D. Her name is XXXX
A. Okay and where does XXXX live
D. In Los Osos
A. Okay, kind of around the area that you live right
D. Right
A. Uh does she have a phone number, what what I will probably do is um I’d much rather obviously go out and talk to them in person um but again if we have a phone number mostly to track who’s who as that kind of how we track people
D. Uh-huh
A. Do you have her home phone number
P96-21871
D. Yes
A. Okay and what is that
D. Um it’s XXXX
A. Okay
D. And her phone number is XXXX
A. Okay, and that’s on the tape too so we can go back and we’ll get that off um so you called on the 7th, you received a phone call from Fleet White Sr., he’s callin’ from Aspen, CO and as soon as he called you at your grandmother’s phone number you called XXXX and you called your therapist, is that right
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay, what, do you remember what Fleet White talked about on the 7th
D. Well I’m not sure that it was exactly that day because
A. Okay
D. There was like several different calls from him
A. Okay
D. Like it mighta not, there was one day that he actually skipped calling which……that he didn’t call
A. Uh-huh
D. But there was several calls in a row
A. Okay, last call that he made uh what did he tell you what did he ask you
D. Last call, uh……he asked me if I would like to go to his birthday party, there was going to be in Costa Mesa
A. Uh-huh
D. A a sometime in, at the end of March
A. Okay
A96-21871
D. Because he want, he missed me, he asked me if I would send him a picture of myself, a recent picture
A. Okay
D. And uh he……tryin’ to think what else he said
A. Did he ask you for a clothed picture like a portrait picture
D. He just asked for a picture
A. Okay okay
D. And he wanted to know if uh an envelope that he had sent with some pictures and notes had arrived
A. Okay, and had that envelop arrived
D. Yes
A. Okay and what were the pictures of
D. Uh they were of uh Fleet Sr. and Goldie Hawn
A. Uh-huh
D. And….Fleet Sr. and some cement czar or something
A. So, I’m sorry
D. A some person W.T. Ray or something like that
A. (inaudible)
D. And then uh….there were uh notes inside of the envelope
A. Okay, what what were the notes about
D. Uh…..the notes said, one of ’em said Goldie was at our New Year’s party
A. Okay
D. Um and then there were two notes that were very much alike and they only had a couple words different
P96-21871
A. Uh-huh
D. And then and some changes in in numbers and he’s…..was uh making a reference supposedly to um…..a caption that was on one of the pictures about him being um devils devilishly good looking
A. Okay
D. And it said that uh this reporter must’ve been drunk….or on drugs to write this about me um something about his age, he was going to be 87 years old
A. Okay
D. And……
C. I have photocopies of those photographs
A. Okay
C. (inaudible)
A. An and actually do you still have the originals of those
D. Yes
A. And again I would ask for the same thing if we could have the originals to make copies of the originals
D. And on one of them…..uh…..he had first written 75
A. Uh-huh
D. For his age and then over the top of 75 wrote 87
A. Okay
D. And on another one he had written like, underneath the like was a T and he just wrote over the T with an L
C. Tyke tyke and the like
A. Okay so he he again wrote little tyke
D. Uh-huh
P96-21871
A. Okay, which refers to you
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay, now if I understand correctly there was some sort of a sex assault that occurred up in Aspen, is that correct……and that involved Fleet White Sr. or Fleet White Jr.
D. Fleet White Sr.
A. Okay when did that occur
D. In the ‘70s, the early ‘70s
A. Okay
D. Maybe…..sometime in there
A. Okay where did this occur at
D. At their house in Aspen
A. At Fleet and Nyla’s house in Aspen
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay….ballpark um do you remember about what year you were in in school, think that’s pretty good
D. Uh……no I really don’t
A. Okay cause kinda goin’ kinda going back by school record here um what was it 9th grade, 8th grade um I mean you started reportin’ a lot of absences um as kinda at that time is that when the sex the sex assaults occurred up in Aspen
D. I don’t know it might’ve been in even the 6th grade
A. Okay
D. I mean I’m not real sure
A. Okay, and is that same um who was present at the house in Aspen when that occurred
D. Um it would’ve been my grandma and grandpa
P96-21871
A. Okay
D. Spraig and Fleet and Nyla
A. Okay…..okay now….we have, okay your grandma and granpa Spraig…..is that your grandfather that died if February
D. No
A. Of ‘66
D. No
A. That’s another set of grandparents right
D. Right
A. Okay
D. Same grandma
A. Got it…….all right so same same grandmother, different grandfather
D. Right
A. You lost me for just a second now
C. We could call and have the photograph photocopy brought over
A. Okay, that’d be fine
C. So (inaudible)
D. Uh
C. (inaudible)
A. Okay
C. (inaudible)
(Sound of door opening.)
A. So Grandpa Spraig is not the one that died in 1966
P96-21871
D. No
A. Okay, who’s that
D. My Grandpa Christof
A. Same grandma though……correct
D. Right
A. Okay and her name is
D. Alice
A. Okay so Alice is the same, Grandpa Christof is the one that um initially contacted Fleet White and had some sort of a major disagreement, argument back in 1966 on his birthday and that’s when he died of a heart attack
D. Right
A. Is that correct, okay and back in ’66 that was after the start of the very first sexual assaults, is that correct
D. Right
B. Can I ask you something
A. Could you close that door please
B. Yeah
D. Sure
B. Can I ask you some clarification was was your Grandpa Christof involved in any of this
D. Yes
B. He was, so both sets of grandparents (Door closing) excuse me, grandparents were involved in the sexual assaults, both grandfathers excuse me
D. Yes uh-huh
B. Were involved in the sexual assaults to to the same degree
Continued.....
BOULDER POLICE DEPARTMENT
DETECTIVE DIVISION
TO. Commander Joe Pelle
District Attorney's Office
FROM. Det. Tom Trujillo
DATE. 2/22/00
TIME.
RE. P96-21871
PRESENT. A. Det. Tom Trujillo
B. Det. Chuck Heidel
C. Lee Hill
D. Nancy Krebs
E. Alex Hunter
(Tape 1 of 3 tape interview.)
C. (inaudible) the same generation even though 3 years older
D. (inaudible) you were quick
C. That's (inaudible) baby book
D. (inaudible)
C. About your but I think that my focus um initially (inaudible) clarify the context (inaudible) subjected here to control (inaudible) dominance, subjugation. and abuse-(inaudible) participating. continuous participating and then uh
B. (inaudible) before we start, here's my card
C. Thank you very much (inaudible)
B. Tom's on his way over
C. Thank you when he gets here we'll walk you through that I mean !(inaudible)
B. Okay no that's fine) that's fine, actually I'll be following Tom's lead but what I would like to do on this while we're waiting here I can get some preliminary information from you
P96-21871
Nancy, your name and date of birth and all that stuff
D. Okay
B. It is Nancy right
D. Uh-huh
B. Okay, do you have a middle name Nancy
D. Jo J O
B. J 0, okay
D. And my last name is Krebs K R E B S
B. K R E E
D. No KREBS
B. B S Krebs okay, and your birthday
D. 4/25/62
B. How tall are you and how much do you weigh
D. Uh about 5'5"
B. Okay
D. And I weigh last time 142
B. 142
C. That's okay
B. Brown hair and
D. I have blue eyes
B. And what's your current address
D. Uh in California
P96-21871 3
B. Uh
C. Yes
B. Why don't you give me all the addresses where you can be contacted
D. Okay
B. If that's what we need
D. . XXXX
B. Okay
C. (inaudible)
A. Tom Trujillo
D. XXXX
B. okay I'm just getting some preliminary information
C. Nancy Krebs, Det. Tom Trujillo
D. Hi
A. Nancy how you doing
D. Fine
B. (inaudible ) -..
D. Uh-huh
B. And that in
D. Los Osos
C. Los Osos, okay
D. Right
C. Capital O
B. Right
P.9G-21B71 4
C. The first one
B. Los Osos
D. Uh-huh
B. Osos okay and what’s the uh zip code
D. XXXX
B. Okay and a phone number
D. Um-
B. XXXX okay there was another address
D. Just through office
(Recording went dead at this point.)
B. Huh, aw well it's (inaudible) of technology
A. Okay~ this is for the recording here um. what you've shown me so far is is copies of your baby book and some photographs including photos of Fleet White Sr. and then some photographs of Fleet White Jr.'s children
D. Yeah and there should
A. Connect
D. Be a…actual… a picture of Fleet White
C. (inaudible)
D. At his wedding.
A. Okay, and where did these photographs come from, I mean the ones (inaudible) obviously but where did these other photographs come from
D. From my grandma’s um photo album
A. Okay and that's still out in California
D. Yeah
P96-21871 5
A. Okay~ now this photo, there's a video of these photographs is that correct is that what this is
C. None none of these videos of other family photographs and correspondence
D. Oh there it is
A. Okay okay so this is Fleet White Jr’s wedding picture
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay, you can pull that one out, and who were the people again that photograph hard to see um kind of from left to right who's this female in the white shirt
D. Let me see
A. A white dress
D. Can I look at it
A. Sure
D. It's a little bit hard, that's uh Nyla
A. Okay, which would be Fleet White's
D. Mother
A. Okay
D. Fleet White Jr., his wife Priscilla, his father
A. Okay
D. And his sister Loni
A. Okay, and the original photograph is out in California
D. Right
A. Okay, so I need to pull this out, if you don't mind
B. For the record that was from a page 20 from a
P96-2187l 6
C. Fax
B. From a fax right
D. Uh-huh
B. Is that what that was from
A. Okay so
D. And this is uh this is a horrible picture (inaudible) uh the quality of it but this is a picture of Fleet White Jr. and Fleet and that's a picture of little Fleet
A. Okay so this is Fleet White Jr ., one who is currently in Boulder
D. Right
A. And his son
D. Right
A. Okay, and that's on page (inaudible) hard to tell 16
B. Looks like page 16 from the fax copy from
A. And then these other photographs uh the other pages of photographs um one's not numbered uh but these are all family photographs of Fleet White's…Fleet White Jr's children, where were these taken at
D. Um
A. Have any idea
D. Well it it says right here, it's written on there that this is before they moved to Colorado
A. Okay
D. And that they were 5 and 3 1/2 years old
A. Okay
D. And that they were taken at a children's museum in Tennessee
A. Okay, very good, that kind of that way I can go back and try to figure out what's what as far
P96-21871
as all these photos go, okay, and then you have this greetings from Fleet and Nyla that would be Fleet White Sr.
D. Right ,
A. And his wife and who are the two children in there
D. Uh Fleet White I guess, he's really Fleet White III
A. Okay
D. And Daphne
A. Got it and that was taken in Aspen in 1997
D. Right
A. Okay
D. Was sent,
A. So on the video tape is another photograph
D. Uh-huh
A. Is that right, okay, um so I guess I guess there's some sort of a connection between you and the White families. Fleet White Sr., Fleet White Jr., I understand that, uh let's start kinda back in the beginning it's probably the easiest way i
D. Okay, can we read this forst
A. Sure
D. I think (inaudible)
A. What what
D. Um
A. What is this
P96-21871
D. It's a it's a letter to my grandmother
A. Uh-huh
D. From uh Nyla White
A. Okay
D. And I think it has some significance because it talks about how uh they would spend Christmases with my mom
A. Uh-huh
D. And my grandmother (Very long pause) (50 sec pause)
A. And Gordon is
D. It's my grandpa that passed away
(Long pause) (20 sec pause)
A. I'm. it talks about Fleet and Loni, would be Fleet White Jr.
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay
(Long pause) (25 sec pause)
D. (inaudible). when will she (inaudible) communication
C. Huh
D. (inaudible)
C. (inaudible)
A. Okay, that's fine (inaudible) ~ so let's start back let's (inaudible) start back as far as you can first remember um your family and the White's family being together, when was that
D. Probably when I was about 3 years old
P96-21871 ! 9
A. Okay, so the White's have been um friends of your parents, grandparents
D. Both
A. For many, many years
D. Yes
A. Okay, um where did you guys live at that time
D. Where did I live
A. Yeah where did you live
D. I lived in Buena Park
A. Okay, and Fleet White Sr. was good friends with your grandfather, is that correct
D. And my grandma
A. And your grandma
D. Both
A. Okay, and where did the Fleet White Sr. live at that time
D. In Hunt, not Hunt, in Long Beach
A. Long Beach okay
D. Uh-huh !
A. Um kinda kinda bring me up to date just a little bit um you know how you kept in touch With the White family, that sort of thing and then talk about go into a little bit more detail if you would (inaudible) kind kind of tell me throughout the years you know I mean have you kept in touch with the Whites, have you have you communicated with the Whites I mean obviously there's communications from 1997 uh but kinda start back from when you first remember and go forward and kinda give me an idea of… of a your contacts with the Whites
D. And like …
A. Just general contacts
D. Well that's really hard to do because I would say that my contacts weren’t 'general contacts
P96-21871 10
with them
A. Okay, um I mean did you cause it talks about it a little bit um Christmas time, that sort of thing, let's start there um I mean I understand there's some other things some subtle things goin' on in this letter but kinda generally and how often would the Whites visit you guys, your grandparents, your parents that sort of thing .
D. Very often
A. Okay, daily, weekly
D. Uh I would say at holidays
A. Okay
D. Christmas, Easter um and uh birthdays, like my grandpa's birthday or my grandma's birthday or
A. Okay so
D. Fleet Senior's birthday or Nyla's birthday
A. Okay so generally and and let's talk about, let's break the families up into… there's too many Fleets here
C. Uh-huh
A. I want let's let's break the family up into Fleet White Sr. um and Nyla corrrect
D. Uh uh-huh
A. Um they would visit your folks or your grandparents
D. My grandparents
A. Okay so Fleet White Sr. and Nyla would visit your grandparents on on the average, the major holidays throughout the years is that what you're saying um Christmas, Easter, and birthdays
D. Birthdays uh-huh
A. Okay any any other times that
D. I'm sure there were other times but I don't know exact dates it would be real hard for me to give exact dates from that point or
P96-21871
A. That's fine that's fine, um when did Fleet White Jr. start comin' into the.picture
D. Well he was always in the picture
A. Right as, what I mean is he's comin' over with Fleet White Sr., when did Fleet White Jr. um I mean is he (inaudible) is he good friends with your grandparents or good friends with your parents both
D. Both
A. Okay okay um kinda as a time reference here, when when did the assaults start, actually who who started the assaults, Fleet White Sr. or Fleet White Jr., the assaults on you
D. Uh Fleet, on me
A. Uh-huh
D. Fleet White Sr.
A. Okay, kinda as a reference, time reference, when do you first remember those starting
D. Around the age of 3 but closer to 4
A. Okay 3 to 4 years old
D. Oh-huh
A. Okay, and where would those occur at
D. Um sometimes at my grandparent's house
A. Okay
D. Oh sometimes at different locations
A. Okay, when they occurred at your grandparent's house, is that over one of these holiday type weekend type things
D. Uh-huh
A. Um that the Whites would be present at
D. Yes
P96-21871 12
A. Okay um, who all was present, 1 mean during those holidays obviously Fleet White Sr. and Nyla uh Fleet White Jr., any other children present
D. Loni
A. Okay, and Loni is
D. Fleet White's sister
A. Okay and who else
D. Uh myself
A. Uh-huh
D. And um my sister would have only been about a year old
A. Okay, were all the children involved in the assaults or was it just you so specifically was Loni there um was your little sister involved
D. At a year and a half, I don't remember
A. Uh-huh
D. Her being there doing anything to my sister at that time
A. Okay
D. Um but Fleet, I don't remember anything with Loni either
A. Okay
D. But I do remember things with uh Fleet White Jr.
A. Okay um
D. Who woulda been about 15 or 16 years old
A. Okay was Fleet White Jr. the victim of these assaults, or was he a suspect in the assaults, Was he a perpetrator when when you can first remember the assaults when he was pressent
D. I think that he was made to do things to me
A. Okay
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D. So I don't know if you want to call that a perpetrator or
A. Okay, he was one of the actors in the assaults
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay um Loni wasn't involved in this that .you can remember
D. I mean she coulda been in a different place
A. Okay
D. Having things done to her
A. Okay, um and you started going through time um start movin' forward, do you ever remember your sis your sister, younger sister bein' involved or being the victim of these assaults
D. Yes
A. Okay
D. Uh-huh
A. When's the first recollection that that occurred
D. Uh...probably when I was about 6 years old
D. Uh 10 old, your sister's a year and a half younger than you
A. Okay uh
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay and what's your sister's name
D. XXXX last name now.
A. And XXXX
D. XXXX
A. XXXX
D. XXXX
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A. And where's XXXX livin' right now
D. Germany
A. How come she's out in Germany
D. Uh she transferred
A. She
D. From Arvada to Germany
A. Arvada Arvada, Colorado
D. Yeah
A. Oh she was a local person
D. For a while
A. Okay is she in the military or anything
D. She's a civilian but works for the military
A. With the military
D. Uh-huh
A. Which branch of government is she in
D. Um. XXXX
A. Okay.; how old is she right now
D. 35
A. Okay, I want to come back to XXXX in just a little bit, so the first time you kinda remember um XXXX also being a victim of these sex assaults, cause when you were 6 that made XXX about 4 and 1/2
D. Uh-huh
A. That right, and where was that at again kinda generally which
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D. Well I (inaudible) I uh
A. (inaudible) occurred
D. I would say probably my grandparent's house
A. Okay, did anything ever occur at your mom and dad's house
D. Yes, uh-huh
A. Okay, tell me about, let's start with some of the things that may
D. Can
A. Have occurred at mom and dad's, go ahead
D. Can I say something cause
A. Sure
D. I have to do this, um and this is really important um my grandfather
A. Uh-huh
D. Died on his birthday February 6, 1966
A. Okay
D. And the Whites were attending a party and uh what I remember about that is that my grandpa was trying to protect me
A. Uh-huh
D. And that Fleet Sr. and my grandpa were in a screaming match, yelling and screaming at each other and my grandpa had a massive heart attack
A. Okay, and this is fact
D. And died and that's really important
A. This was at his birthday, your grandpa's birthday
D. Uh-huh
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A. Okay, who
D. And I just, I remember an argument happening and I don't remember what was being said cause I was only, I was almost 4 years old then
A. Uh-huh
D. And I remember my grandpa grabbin his chest and falling to the ground
A. Okay, I'm sorry, do you remember what the argument was about
D. No
A. Just that they were screaming
D. Something about…that they were screaming that Fleet had got out he was tryin' to tough me or something and my grandpa just got really upset
A. Uh-huh
D. For some reason and they had a screaming match
A. Okay and this is Fleet Sr.
D. Right
A. Okay, um did you talk to your grandma about this at all, who else have you talked to about all these assaults
D. I haven't talked to my grandmother about that
A. Okay, uh have you talked to your mom or dad about either one of these, and of the assaults or anything
D. About any of the assaults, a lot of times there where there so I wouldn't have to talk to them about it
A. Okay and I guess that's what's (inaudible) I'm not understanding a 100% so your mom and dad were present in the room during the assaults…or they were just there in the house during the assaults
D. My mom
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A. Does that make sense
D. Yeah. well they were often present during the assaults
A. Okay so your mom and dad both knew about what was occurring
D. Yes
A. Okay um and they knew, what was occurring to both you and your sister
D. Yes
A. Okay, were they a part of this
D. Yes
A. Okay. how were they a part of the assaults
D. Well they let them happen
A. Okay. um did your did your father physically assault you at all
D. Yeah
A. Sexually assault you
D. (inaudible) things about my dad
A. Okay, um
D. Wrapping me up in blankets. keeping the blankets really tight so I couldn't get out of it
A. Okay
D. Um I can remember being whipped belts. and I would uh pee in my bed or something like that
A. Okay so were your mom and dad, the assaults, were they limited to the kind of physical assault type thing. physical and mental assaults um or did they also include sexual assaults
D. They also included sexual assaults
A (inaudible)
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D. And uh my mom…was that she would actually sometimes take me to places and witness things that have happened to me
A. Okay what do you mean take you to places
D. Like- take me over to the Whites
A. Okay
D. Or the there were other locations that they would take me to
A. Okay okay so your mom was physically active in actually kind of giving you to the Whites is that what I'm hearing
D. Right
A. Okay, and this is this started with Fleet White Sr.
D. Yes
A. When did Fleet White Jr. get involved other than when he was kind of a participant at 16 um when did he kinda physically take over become involved in this
D. When he was doing it willingly is that what
A. Yeah
D. You're asking me
A. Yeah .
D.………….need to think
A. Okay
D. And probably when I was around 7 ~ 8 years old
A. Okay, that's when he kinda became an active participant on his own as it were
D. Uh-huh, uh~huh
A. Okay, um when's your birthday
D. 4/25
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A. 62
D. 62
A. Okay, uh
D. And Fleet White is 50 years old
A. Okay, so he's about
D. 13
A. 12 years older than you. 13 years older than you
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay um let me let me back up for just a second, we talked about Fleet White Sr. and we talked about Fleet White Jr. um and unfortunately let's define assaults I do you remember were they kind of a fondling. touching type of an assault or did they go beyond that
D. No they went beyond that
A. Okay for both Fleet White Sr. and Jr.
D. Yes
A. Okay, um. tell me how far they went beyond that is it um
D. Penetration and
A. Okay, like digital penetration with their fingers
D. No penetration with their penises
A. Okay. um vaginally
D. Yes
A. What about anally
D. Yeah
A. Okay so penetration both orifices
P96-21871
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay, what about oral sex
D. Oral copulation
A. Okay um where they made you un they placed their penis into you into your mouth, that sort of thing
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay and we're talkin' about both Fleet Sr. and Jr. doing this
D. Yeah
A. Okay uh when was the last time this occurred ,
D. Last time?
A. Uh, the most recent
D. The last time that I can remember Fleet White Sr. was when uh he came to my grandparents house in Cayucos
A. Cayucos, where's that
D. It's in California I
A. Okay
D. And it's about 5 miles from my home
A. Okay and when was that
D. Um, can I look
A. Sure anything that will help you
B. While you're at it, how do you spell Cayucos
D. CAYUCOS
A. Okay
P96-21871
D. The ninth of August 1980
A. Okay, and what's what are we looking here
D. That's uh the will of my grandfather
A. Uh-huh
D. And um it's um Fleet White’s signature as a witness and Nyla White. as a witness too
A. Okay and this is in it's hard to read the date 19…
D. 80
A. August 1980
D. Uh-huh
B. (inaudible)
A. Is that, that's supposed to be an 80
D. I think it
A. 19
D. Actually I think it should be a 90
A. 1990
D. Yeah
A. Okay and this is when Fleet White Jr. and his mom
D. No this is Fleet White Sr.
A. Okay this is Fleet White Sr., so the last sex assault that occurred to you by Fleet White Sr. .was back in August of 1990
D. Right
A. Is that right trying to get some of these straight and that’s after this photo it’s kind of a two page photocopy that rolls over, it's a it's supposed to be a legal size document Lee (inaudible )
P96-21871
C. (inaudible) I just received it on a fax machine and I assume it's the standard (inaudible)
A. (inaudible)
C. (inaudible) will
A. Okay, um when is the last time that Fleet White Jr. um was a suspect, when was the last time he did any type of sexual assault on you
D. Uh the best that I can remember it would have
A. We want you to .remember
D. Okay, it would had of been between uh 1976 and 1978
A. Okay, and where would that have occurred at
D. In Trona, California, Trona T R O N A
A. Okay, uh so '76 to '78…um…the kind there's there's kind of a big skip, I mean Fleet White Jr. stops in '78, um Senior doesn't stop until '90, were you around Fleet white Jr. between '78 and '90, have you been around him at all
D. I've seen him
A. Okay seen him like I mean like on TV or seen him personally
D. No in a more in a more casual setting at my aunt and uncle's house in Bakersfield
A. Okay, when was the last time you saw Fleet White Jr. in Bakersfield or saw at all
D. Uh woulda been in probably around in the .8O's mid mid 8Os
A. Okay um that's kind of a casual you just got kind of a casual atmosphere
D. Uh-huh
A. Uh
D. Where Fleet and Priscilla had come to visit my uh uncle
A. Okay
P96-21871
D. And Aunt in Bakersfield
A. But there wasn't any type of assault on you at that time
D. No
A. Okay um ...any reason why Fleet White Jr. stopped the assaults back in '78 I guess (inaudible)
D. We1l..."um I think because it……it had gotten to a point where I was being abused so much that um people were noticing things where I was going to school
A. Uh-huh
D. And they reported that there was some child abuse going on
A. Okay
D. And at that point in time I went to uh sex investigation and then later uh they went to a preliminary hearing and then the person um pleaded no contest to statutory rape and sodomy
A. Okay um we just pulled out a photograph of a person in Inyo County
D. Inyo
A. I N Y O County um Independence, California is that right
D. Right
A. Okay let's, who who's who's this a photograph of
D. Mackey Boykin
A. MACKY
D. Well he spelled it different ways
A. Okay
D. MACKIE or MACKEY
A. Okay...,Boykin
P96-21871
D. Uh-huh BOYKIN
A. Okay and when was this when was this booking photo taken
D. In '80
A. 1980
D. I think it says one or is that 81
A. It's hard to okay '80, '81 something like that; now how does how does Mackie fit into all this; who's Mackie
D. Mackie was uh my stepfather's brother
A. Okay
D. But not at the time that this was going on, he was my mom, when she was married to my dad
A. Uh-huh
D. Had several men that would come over to our house and Mackie's brother Mackie's sister Lived down the street from us in Buena Park
A. Okay, let let me back up just a little, what's your mom's name
D. Gwen
A. Got that G W
D. EN
A. E N and Boykin
D. BOYKIN
A. What's your real father's name
D. Don
A. Last. name
D. Krebs (inaudible) yeah
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A. Okay, when were they married…or were they married
D. Where
A. When were they married
D. I think 1960
A. Okay about '60, and they were divorced, you talked about
D. Well my Dad left when I was about 6 years old
A. Okay so when was that 19..
D. '68
A. Okay, what do you mean your Dad left
D. He moved to San Luis Obispo
A. Okay um
D. And uh and my sister and I stayed with my mom and my brother went with my dad.
A. Okay so did Mom get a divorce at that point in time
D. Uh huh
A. Okay your mom saw, or was seeing other people at that time
D. Well she was seeing other people while she was still married to my Dad
A. Okay and that's where this guys comes into (can't read the next part)
D. Right
A. Okay um and he was arrested in 1980 for sexual assaults on you
D. Right
A. Okay, and that’s and so you think that's why Fleet (cough) there were some changes goin on, people were noticing things about you, is that correct
D. Right
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A. And that's why Fleet um stopped the sex assaults back in 1978 does that make sense
D. Around that
A. Around that time
D. Time (inaudible)
A. Okay. and we're talking about um Junior
D. Right
A. And Fleet White Sr. continued the sex assaults against you all the way up through 1990 is that right
D. Right
A. Okay, um did you bring that to any other than mom's attention. Did you bring that to the attention of social services or anybody um during that time
D. During that time
A. Yeah
D. No but I did when I started um in therapy
A. Okay when did you start therapy
D. I'm not really sure
A. Okay
D. I mean it
(inaudible)
D. I've been in it in therapy about 10 years
A. So about 1990. does that sound right
C. Can can I interject
A. Sure
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C. Her therapist is available to cooperate with this
A. Okay
C. And she's not a uh latent memory developer, she's not a hypnotist or anything like that and I've been in her offices in XXXX
A. Okay
C. And uh she she has notes that indicate references to abuse by the Whites that predate the event
A. Okay and and again that the therapy started probably around 1990 does that sound
C. They both told me about 10 years ago
A. Okay
C. Also just for illustration) I don't know (inaudible) and I'm sorry
A. That's fine
C. But I'm trying to help and of course you all know this is difficult for for her but these are school records of Nancy indicating the number of absences
A. Uh-huh
C. And reasons for that and these three are for
D. (inaudible) when I was in the seventh grade
A. Okay
D. And there were things going on in in San Luis Obispo County I was in seventh grade, I had missed 45 days of school, 37 of them were because I was ill and 8 because of family emergenc ies
A. Okay
D. And in the eighth grade I had missed 21 days and I had only, I only stayed there until March
A. Okay
D. And I don't know how many family emergencies there were
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A. Okay, and 9th through 11 th grade
D. Um
A. Where are those records
D. That, they should be in Trona and I've actually tried to get my records from Trona and they tell me that they don't have my records
A. Okay, Trona
D. California
A. Okay and that's what this is up here at the top
D. Right
A. Torona Joint Unified School District...okay um, when we get all done what I'll do is I'll have you um sign some releases so we can talk to the therapist, so we can uh get some school records that sort of thing if you wouldn't mind, we'll get to that at the very end um so and this guy here um who did you tell about the sex assaults involving this guy
D. Well at first I didn't tell anybody
A. Okay
D. Then I was close to a teacher in... at Trona High School
A. Uh-huh
D. And some other teachers and they were noticing that things were going on
A. Uh-huh
D. That I was coming to school in different states of mind and they called...uh the authorities
A. Okay um so a school teacher at Trona High School
D. Right
A. And about what year was that
D. Uh…
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A. What what year of school was if that that's easier, we can figure out how ~old you are
D. I think that it was in uh it had been in '78 or '79
A. Okay
D. Cause the actual trial was um July 8 of 1980
A. Okay, so you told the school teacher about this guy here
B. You want to take a break, this (inaudible) if you want to this will be a very good time to do it
A. Yeah you want to take a break
B. (inaudible)
A. Real quick
B. Or are you okay!
C. Can I explain
B. Sure
C. In my
B. Uh-huh
C. Conversations with her over you know we've been talking I guess five different days and uh she's real good about um pressing through but there reaches a point there if she recalls these events um on three occasions she's been uh curled up on the floor sobbing for a long time so I mean that may be coming but
A. Okay
C. She's very courageous
A. What we can do is let's um let's take about 5 minutes you can go to the bathroom or anything maybe get a glass of water um and that way maybe we can try to figure out what's wrong with the tape so I don't have to keep flipping the tape when we talk without messing up the tape recorder
D. Okay
P96-21B71
A. All right, let's stop the tape right now it's it's actually about 3.40 in the afternoon, okay
C. Can I get you on this (inaudible)
B. You want to use the restroom
D. No
B. Okay
D. I'm actually still okay
B. We'll, you sit here, take a break then okay
(Electronic noise.)
C. In these events where she would be handed over, almost all of them were filmed
B. Uh-huh
C. So she has a XXXX reaction XXXX view of a camera (can't read the line)
(electronic noise)
B. And I tell all the defense-attorney that come in and it's just um, it's kind SOP as um assume that you are
C. Okay (inaudible)
B. And that way that way you know there's no (inaudible)
C. Right and and that (inaudible)
B. There's no secrets you know assume that you are
C. Yeah
B. And then nobody can beat you up, nobody can be accused of being sneaky about it
C. What were, and we were discussing that just a moment ago and and she's completely fine with that
B. Okay
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C. And it helps her that she doesn’t have to look at the camera
B. Okay, all right, you know I worked I I worked a 9 ½ year old being the 9/1/2 year old, 9 ½ years being the last time the assault occurred and according to us was 9 ½ years, according to the defense after it went to trial was 10 ½ years old because the statute was the statute of limitation
C. Oh
B. Exten extenuating situation er circumstances
C. Uh-huh
B. Which extended the the um the statute of limitations on that one but um uh you know I I know from experience that these are difficult
B. And and you you’re doin’ a good job, what what really helps and it helped when we went to trial on this one , is that um you use some sort of anchors to remember stuff you know jeez I was a junior that year and I remember because you know little things, little things it was snowing out that day
D. My house
B. And and I recall that and we got a phone call from a uncle overseas or something like that. It helps to have those little anchors that that when we have to when we go back to corroborate this stuff we can do it a little bit easier but you don’t, I mean, you don’t
D. But I have so much stuff crammed in my head
B. And you know what helps also because you these things take these they go over such a long period of time it happened so many times is that what helps is that you pick out ones that really stand out you know um ones that I know this happened because and again then you throw an anchor in there in that and and it it helps us and it helps you to to nail it down, it helps other people that might be witnesses to that you know um so that and that’s why we’re asking um detailed questions or Tom’s asking you detailed questions about you know what was going on at the time who was where, it gets a little confusing some times but usually first time through it’s really confusing for you if people don’t that don’t know the information because it’s all fresh (inaudible) the so and so is or or grandfather or whatever we go through it 3 or 4 times and then we become familiar with it so, you’re not, you’re losing us but we’ll catch up on some of this stuff all right okay um let me uh let you go ahead and continue your break, see if this thing’s working
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C. Are you doin okay
D Uh
C. (inaudible)
D. (inaudible)
C. (You know I think I (inaudible)
D. No
C. (inaudible), detective
B. Yes
(Talking outside the interview room.)
C. You’re being very patient
D. Huh
C. You are being very patient, you know you can…I know you have a tendency to follow a question there’s parameters but on several occasions you’ve offered additional information because I know that you have a narrative that’s more important then they are eliciting from you, and you should feel free to go ahead go ahead and say it everything …it will help actually…you’re not being examined in court some of the formalities associated with testifying aren’t so present here and so you know they’re tryin’ to help you recreate…..what they may not understand is the……you have amplified comments that will make it that much clearer
D. I have what
C. You have amplified comments so it will make it that much clearer, I understand that cause we’ve been working together for several days…..but um feel free to help with them okay
D. That’s what I’m here for
C. Right
D. (inaudible)
C. (inaudible) study the uh RTD (inaudible)
P96-21871
D. Oh……are they gonna bring us some coffee
C. Yes
(Long silence.)
C. Now I’d like to help them (inaudible) okay (inaudible)
(Many inaudible voices coming from outside the interview room.)
A. They’re watching’ Comedy Club in there
C. I didn’t
A. Lee uh
C. Successfully dubbed with the tape
A. Lee didn’t dub the tape quite right and so they’re they’re lookin’ at Comedy Club
C. God damit, fortunately I have the original
A. Good well actually just bring the original and uh if you have the original tape uh we have high 8 player
C. Uh-huh
A. That we can go right from high 8 to video um and that’s…that’s these pictures I mean……might have a hard time but what may be best for us is um is actually get the original photographs on some of these, we could actually make photocopies, color photocopies so we can see ‘em um so that they’re no um and some of these are very dark and I you know I kinda kinda tell who they are um only cause I know the people uh but I think it would be better if we had actually good, clean photocopies……and we can do that you know we can photocopy for you
C. (inaudible)
A. That’s what
C. (inaudible) I plugged the VCR into the input jacks and I guess I have to switch a button to change it from uh cable connection to VHS
A. Probably, like I said ours we have a deck in the other room it’s all set up for that so we can get it without a problem okay
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C. Okay
A. So, when Chuck comes back well start our tape back up….. then we’ll have that just in case this other microphone doesn’t quite work and uh we’ll kinda go from there, you okay with Pepsi, do you want a glass of water of somthin’
D. No, I’m fine
A. Okay, if you have to stop and go to the bathroom or anything you know get too warm of whatever
(Sound of door closing.)
C. Well I though, no I mean, I hope it was also funny and a good routine
B. From what I saw of it it was ok
A. Actually from what I saw, I didn’t I didn’t recognize the uh the comic but it was some comic, Comic Club okay uh, let me start that back up like I said we’ll kinda use that as our judge um again if we have to take any breaks at all, you let me know and we’ll stop okay um I think probably, now that we got kind of a basis um of different things let’s start back in 1990 okay cause that’s the last time there were any sex assaults against you, is that correct
D. No it’s not the last time there were any sexual assaults against me
A. Okay
D. (inaudible)
A. By Fleet White Sr. or Fleet White Jr.
D. Right
A. Okay so 1990 was….I I think that’s a good cut off date um and again if we need to go forward we can do that we can start from present day and go back to 1990 but uh for now since we’re kinda focusing on Fleet White Sr. and Jr. um let’s start at 1990 and kinda work our way back, that sound like a good idea, good way to start cause I got, we kinda jumped around quite a bit, different dates and stuff so start in 1990, um that’s when you started therapy in 1990 correct
D. Uh-huh
A. And that was the last time that Fleet White Sr. sexually assaulted you
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D. Uh-huh
A. Is that correct
D. That I remember uh-huh
A. Okay, um where did that assault occur
D. At my grandpa’s house
A. In California
D. In Cayucos uh-huh
A. Okay, um let’s let’s kinda start with that assault there……who all was involved in the assault, was it just Fleet White Sr. and you or were there other people in the room
D. Um…..there were other people in the room to start with
A. Okay
D. But then I was taken down to a a bedroom in my grandma’s place the upstairs most like a living room, kitchen and downstairs it was two bedrooms
A. Okay uh when you started in the in the main room with other people um how did Fleet White Sr. um get you out of that room and downstairs
D. He just asked me to come with him
A. Okay, um did anybody else acknowledge that you left there at that time
D. Yes I mean everybody that was in the room saw me leaving with
A. Okay
D. Fleet White Sr. to go downstairs
A. Okay, who all was in the room at that time
D. It would be my grandfather, Albert Sprague, my grandma, Alice Spraig and Nyla
A. Okay so
D. (inaudible)
P96-21871
A. So Fleet White’s wife Nyla and your grandparents
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay um did your grandparents have knowledge of what Fleet was gonna do with you
D. Yes
A. Okay, now were they actively, is this something they were actively involved in also as far as sexually assaulting you does that make sense
D. Well they provided a place for sex um numerous sexual assaults to occur
A. Okay, so they they kinda provided a place
D. Uh-huh
A. Did they have knowledge of what was goin’g on
D. Yes
A. Okay, so your grandparents and Fleet White’s wife were present in the room and they knew that Fleet White took you downstairs
D. Yes
A. Okay, what occurred specifically during that assault since that's the most recent one involving the Whites.
D. Um first remember that he asked me to undress
A. Okay
D. And that he took several pictures of me with a Polaroid camera
A. Okay, Do you know where those photographs are at now (inaudible)
D. I have no idea
A. He took those with him
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay so he took several Polaroid photos of you
P96-21871
D. Yes
A. Were you dressed or undressed at that time
D. Undressed, he had me undress
A. Okay
D. And took several photographs
A. Uh-huh
D. And ever since I’ve been a little girl he always would call me his little tyke or his little princess or you know he would……um……hard to describe him……he would he even though I was an adult he was talking to me as a if I were a child
A. Okay……when he called you little tyke or little princess did that only occur during the sexual assaults or did that occur at other times
D. No that occurred at other times
A. Okay, so that was kind of his pet name for you
D. Right
A. As his little tyke or little princess
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay, and goin’ back to the sex assault, after he took photographs of you what occurred then
D. Then uh……my granma had a uh a……headboard on her bed and he tied my hands up to the headboard
A. Uh-huh
D. And……(long pause)……he um------started rubbin’ his body all over my body
A. Okay, we talkin’ about like a massage type thing with lotion or just kinda rubbin’ up against you
D. No it was more like groping
A. Okay
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D. I think it is a better word
A. Okay
B. Is he undressed at this point
D. Uh-huh
B. Uh what’s distinguishable about his body
A. Any scars or tattoos, big marks or anything like that
D. No to be perfectly honest, when uh…..many of uh the assaults occurred I just didn’t really pay attention to things like that
A. Okay
D. I mean I didn’t……I was tryin’ to do something you know trying’ to think of something else other than this man groping my body
A. Okay, by groping um you talking about just two bodies rubbing together or was he fondling you with his hands that sort of groping, is that what you’re talkin’ about
D. I’m talking about that he was rubbing his penis all over my body
A. Okay, okay um at that, did he ever have intercourse with you at that time
D. Yes
A. Okay, um oral intercourse
D. ...as best as I can remember
A. Okay what about vaginal intercourse
D. Yes (inaudible)
A. And anal intercourse
D. Yes
P96-21871
A. Okay um
D. I I I tell you this that….um….I do remember this really clear but he had the uh sodomized me at the very end
(End side one, tape one.)
D. He would pull out before he was ready to ejaculate in me, stick his penis in my mouth
A. Okay, so he’d go from anal intercourse to stickin’ his penis in your mouth
D. Right
A. Okay um
D. Or not just anal intercourse, also vaginally
A. Okay, so ei either time when he was havin’ intercourse with you he’d pull out and place his penis in in your mouth
D. Right, but that didn’t always happen
A. Okay but more specifically in in 1990 the last time is that kind of the events that occurred
D. That he ended I’m really clear on that he ended by sodomizing me
A. Okay okay, now obviously not the last time you’ve seen Fleet White Sr.
D. No
A. In 1990, um did you tell anybody you know like a girlfriend um other than your therapist, did you tell anybody else about that encounter in 1990
D. No
A. Okay and there have been other sexual encounter, sexual assaults against you since 1990 right
D. Right
A. But not with Fleet White Sr. or Fleet White Jr.
D. Right
P96-21871
A. Okay um, you have som….can we go like a year increments, five year increments, about how many times between say 1985 and 1990 did Fleet White Sr. sexually assault you
D. 1985 to 1990?
A. Is that too is that too big of a time span
D. …Well I really have to think about that
A. Okay
D. You know it’s like
A. Let let’s let’s start the
D. Oh can I say something
A. Sure
D. (inaudible) um……just because that was the last time that Fleet White…..uh physically did anything to me
A. Uh-huh
D. Does not mean that he hasn’t been asking me just recently to
A. Okay, tell me about that
D. And that has happened before I came to Colorado, where he had been calling my grandma
A. Okay
D. On a daily basis and he told me that his wife, who asked to talk to me, called my grandma’s number
A. Uh
D. And told me that his wife, Nyla, was in Costa Mesa and wanted to know if I would fly to Aspen, Colarado
A. Okay, when did this conversation take place
D. Um…..I don’t know….uh if I could look at a calendar something I can give you a better…..
P96-21871
C. May I show her a calendar
A. Sure, you got one otherwise we can, I can go get a calendar, I can have somebody bring in a calendar um are we talking about this year
D. I’m talkin’ about right before I came here
A. Okay
C. Okay
A. So today is what the 22nd
C. February, we’re right here uh no uh yes that’s a Tuesday this this column is Monday so February 22, you came here on Saturday the 19th
D. Okay
C. And uh this uh is the Friday before and um we first met on Friday the uh 11th
D. Right, so…….oh I ihow um……..I would say that the call started either the 7th or the 8th of February
A. Of this year of 2000
D. Right, uh-huh
A. Okay and those were calls to your grandma’s house (inaudible)
D. Well my grandma lives with me and my grandma has a separate phone line
A. Okay, did the calls come in on your grandmother’s phone line or your phone line
C. (Coughing)
D. On her phone line, my grandmother’s phone line
C. (inaudible)
A. Sure
C. Sorry
A. (inaudible) for you
96-21871
B. What’s that phone number
D. It is um area code XXXX
A. Now would would your grandmother release toll records to us (inaudible)
D. Will my grandmother what
A. Release her toll records to us
D. I have no idea
A. Who who pays who pays the phone bills
D. My grandma
A. Okay
D. Pays her phone bill and I have my own
A. Okay, but you’re talking about the phone calls that came in on the 7th and 8th of February, came into your grandmother’s phone line correct
D. Right
A. Not to your phone line
D. Right
A. Okay um what I need to do is is there a way to look at to see um what long distance phone calls your grandmother received at that time
D. Well I don’t know that, I mean I would know that there were there would be ways to look at her phone bill
A. Okay that that’s what I (inaudible)
D. But the calls…but the the calls the calls were
A. Were they local calls or were they long distance calls
D. No they were long distance calls
A. Okay so they so if Fleet White Sr. was callin’ from Aspen to grandmother’s house
P96-21871
D. Right
A. Okay that’s what I need to know
C. From Aspen or from California
D. From Aspen
C. He was callin’ …..can….can
A. Go on
C. I provide some context…..she’s terrified of her grandmother
A. Okay
C. Her grandmother has participated in handing her over (inaudible) the role of her grandmother living with her is basically a dominant domineering watchdog
A. Okay
C. And so there there’s a great deal of terror that she has associated with
A. Okay
C. He….that why she left
A. Okay , and and that’s um what I was trying’ to get at is the phone calls from Aspen, CO correct
D. Right and I think that my grandma……made at least one if not two calls back to Fleet White
A. Fleet White Sr.
D. In aspen
A. Okay now let let’s talk about the calls from Fleet White Sr. on the 7th and 8th, what exactly did he did he say during those phone calls
D. ...uh...I’m just tryin’ to get clear in my mind
A. Okay
D. Which…..came first which day
P96-21871
A. Okay
D. He said what
A. So you’re talkin’ about February let’s let’s start with February 7th, looks like it’s a Monday um what time of the day did those phone calls come in, morning, afternoon, or evening
D. I don’t know but I have uh I don’t know right now but I have a record of them
A. Okay
D. Because every time that Fleet Sr. called my house I called my therapist
A. Okay
D. And told her
A. So they they would be in your therapist’s records
D. Uh-huh and I also called a friend of mine uh an elderly friend of mine and told her at the time to call my grandma’s phone number so that she would know that it was busy and that that this is the person that she was talking to
A. Okay, who who’s this elderly person that you talked to
D. Her name is XXXX
A. Okay and where does XXXX live
D. In Los Osos
A. Okay, kind of around the area that you live right
D. Right
A. Uh does she have a phone number, what what I will probably do is um I’d much rather obviously go out and talk to them in person um but again if we have a phone number mostly to track who’s who as that kind of how we track people
D. Uh-huh
A. Do you have her home phone number
P96-21871
D. Yes
A. Okay and what is that
D. Um it’s XXXX
A. Okay
D. And her phone number is XXXX
A. Okay, and that’s on the tape too so we can go back and we’ll get that off um so you called on the 7th, you received a phone call from Fleet White Sr., he’s callin’ from Aspen, CO and as soon as he called you at your grandmother’s phone number you called XXXX and you called your therapist, is that right
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay, what, do you remember what Fleet White talked about on the 7th
D. Well I’m not sure that it was exactly that day because
A. Okay
D. There was like several different calls from him
A. Okay
D. Like it mighta not, there was one day that he actually skipped calling which……that he didn’t call
A. Uh-huh
D. But there was several calls in a row
A. Okay, last call that he made uh what did he tell you what did he ask you
D. Last call, uh……he asked me if I would like to go to his birthday party, there was going to be in Costa Mesa
A. Uh-huh
D. A a sometime in, at the end of March
A. Okay
A96-21871
D. Because he want, he missed me, he asked me if I would send him a picture of myself, a recent picture
A. Okay
D. And uh he……tryin’ to think what else he said
A. Did he ask you for a clothed picture like a portrait picture
D. He just asked for a picture
A. Okay okay
D. And he wanted to know if uh an envelope that he had sent with some pictures and notes had arrived
A. Okay, and had that envelop arrived
D. Yes
A. Okay and what were the pictures of
D. Uh they were of uh Fleet Sr. and Goldie Hawn
A. Uh-huh
D. And….Fleet Sr. and some cement czar or something
A. So, I’m sorry
D. A some person W.T. Ray or something like that
A. (inaudible)
D. And then uh….there were uh notes inside of the envelope
A. Okay, what what were the notes about
D. Uh…..the notes said, one of ’em said Goldie was at our New Year’s party
A. Okay
D. Um and then there were two notes that were very much alike and they only had a couple words different
P96-21871
A. Uh-huh
D. And then and some changes in in numbers and he’s…..was uh making a reference supposedly to um…..a caption that was on one of the pictures about him being um devils devilishly good looking
A. Okay
D. And it said that uh this reporter must’ve been drunk….or on drugs to write this about me um something about his age, he was going to be 87 years old
A. Okay
D. And……
C. I have photocopies of those photographs
A. Okay
C. (inaudible)
A. An and actually do you still have the originals of those
D. Yes
A. And again I would ask for the same thing if we could have the originals to make copies of the originals
D. And on one of them…..uh…..he had first written 75
A. Uh-huh
D. For his age and then over the top of 75 wrote 87
A. Okay
D. And on another one he had written like, underneath the like was a T and he just wrote over the T with an L
C. Tyke tyke and the like
A. Okay so he he again wrote little tyke
D. Uh-huh
P96-21871
A. Okay, which refers to you
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay, now if I understand correctly there was some sort of a sex assault that occurred up in Aspen, is that correct……and that involved Fleet White Sr. or Fleet White Jr.
D. Fleet White Sr.
A. Okay when did that occur
D. In the ‘70s, the early ‘70s
A. Okay
D. Maybe…..sometime in there
A. Okay where did this occur at
D. At their house in Aspen
A. At Fleet and Nyla’s house in Aspen
D. Uh-huh
A. Okay….ballpark um do you remember about what year you were in in school, think that’s pretty good
D. Uh……no I really don’t
A. Okay cause kinda goin’ kinda going back by school record here um what was it 9th grade, 8th grade um I mean you started reportin’ a lot of absences um as kinda at that time is that when the sex the sex assaults occurred up in Aspen
D. I don’t know it might’ve been in even the 6th grade
A. Okay
D. I mean I’m not real sure
A. Okay, and is that same um who was present at the house in Aspen when that occurred
D. Um it would’ve been my grandma and grandpa
P96-21871
A. Okay
D. Spraig and Fleet and Nyla
A. Okay…..okay now….we have, okay your grandma and granpa Spraig…..is that your grandfather that died if February
D. No
A. Of ‘66
D. No
A. That’s another set of grandparents right
D. Right
A. Okay
D. Same grandma
A. Got it…….all right so same same grandmother, different grandfather
D. Right
A. You lost me for just a second now
C. We could call and have the photograph photocopy brought over
A. Okay, that’d be fine
C. So (inaudible)
D. Uh
C. (inaudible)
A. Okay
C. (inaudible)
(Sound of door opening.)
A. So Grandpa Spraig is not the one that died in 1966
P96-21871
D. No
A. Okay, who’s that
D. My Grandpa Christof
A. Same grandma though……correct
D. Right
A. Okay and her name is
D. Alice
A. Okay so Alice is the same, Grandpa Christof is the one that um initially contacted Fleet White and had some sort of a major disagreement, argument back in 1966 on his birthday and that’s when he died of a heart attack
D. Right
A. Is that correct, okay and back in ’66 that was after the start of the very first sexual assaults, is that correct
D. Right
B. Can I ask you something
A. Could you close that door please
B. Yeah
D. Sure
B. Can I ask you some clarification was was your Grandpa Christof involved in any of this
D. Yes
B. He was, so both sets of grandparents (Door closing) excuse me, grandparents were involved in the sexual assaults, both grandfathers excuse me
D. Yes uh-huh
B. Were involved in the sexual assaults to to the same degree
Continued.....
Lynette 22- Posts : 220
Join date : 2012-02-27
Re: The Nancy Krebs Interview - Part One
by Mama2JML Tue May 22, 2012 6:23 pm
Thanks for posting this, Lyn. I'm going to make this a "sticky". We should also post and stick the released depos... 
)
)_________________
“Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and it's better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.”
~Marilyn Monroe
Mama2JML- Admin
- Posts : 1553
Join date : 2012-02-17
Location : Heartland -
Re: The Nancy Krebs Interview - Part One
by Mama2JML Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:10 am
Bump to put interview in order.
_________________
“Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and it's better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.”
~Marilyn Monroe
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- Posts : 1553
Join date : 2012-02-17
Location : Heartland -
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